Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Motorsport History


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 Feb 2011, 12:43 (Ref:2825628)   #31
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
There was a thread not so long ago about Zakspeed Escorts. Perhaps some of the contributors to that thread may have information or pictures of Zakspeed suspension set-up.

Also, there are Alan Mann and Broadspeed Escorts still around and the owners may be prepared to describe or photo their car's set-up.
Johan, good luck with the build! After not being able to discover enough information about Zakspeed I built my car using normal front legs and hubs but with compression struts and drop link arb. All could be swapped if information becomes available!

The previous Zak thread was mostly about the Gp5 turbo Mk2 spaceframe car so not as relevant as could be for 1974. There was another by Greg Cozier researching an ex Broadspeed Mk1 he has in the Bahamas.

Perhaps the most famous and original AMR Escort XOO349F is back with the Mann family but comes from an earlier period. The problem with a lot of cars (like the Zakspeed Mk1 I looked at) is that their careers continued after Gp2 ETCC or whatever and the spec was changed over time. Period photos and recollections are worth a lot!
Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 5 Feb 2011, 07:35 (Ref:2826030)   #32
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks Mike, Good Luck is needed

Mike, I suppose it is your Mk1 that is yellow and green on Wilcox website. From where have you bought the bubble arches? Did they fit well?

From the pictures it seems that you are using 15" wheels. Have you done anything to the inner wheelarch to get a 15" wheel to fit??
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Feb 2011, 08:07 (Ref:2826035)   #33
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvahn View Post
Thanks Mike, Good Luck is needed

From where have you bought the bubble arches? Did they fit well?

From the pictures it seems that you are using 15" wheels. Have you done anything to the inner wheelarch to get a 15" wheel to fit??
Hi Johan, the arches came from Fibresports in UK. It has been suggested that they made the originals for Broadspeed, who first used that design, but again don't know if that is true. They come as arch and section of wing that you have to blend in to the original. The result looks right and they are strong (but heavy). The car now has a self made aluminium front spoiler that is closer in design to 1974/5 cars.

Yes the rear inner arches have to be removed and larger tubs fitted. These are available to buy. I have seen front footwells modified as well to clear tyres on lock. You will need to do this if using Zakspeed width wheels!

I can send you photos of arches and tubs being fitted if you want.
Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 5 Feb 2011, 09:14 (Ref:2826052)   #34
Gungebucket
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
United Kingdom
Cornwall, UK
Posts: 31
Gungebucket should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wooding Escort suspension

Can't remember details of the front suspension at the moment, but the old grey matter may still come up with something! I do recall more about the rear suspension though. I remember collecting the rear axles from Ford Cologne. The diff housings were aluminium and the axle tubes dural. The originals had the suspension pick up points welded in place, but these fractured near the welds. The ones we used had the pick up points clamped in place, a bit like overgrown SU throttle arms! The axles were so light that I could carrly two at a time. one in each hand. D
Gungebucket is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Feb 2011, 10:54 (Ref:2826079)   #35
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungebucket View Post
Can't remember details of the front suspension at the moment, but the old grey matter may still come up with something! I do recall more about the rear suspension though. I remember collecting the rear axles from Ford Cologne. The diff housings were aluminium and the axle tubes dural. The originals had the suspension pick up points welded in place, but these fractured near the welds. The ones we used had the pick up points clamped in place, a bit like overgrown SU throttle arms! The axles were so light that I could carrly two at a time. one in each hand. D
Welcome back Gunge. Get that grey matter exercised! Very interesting about the axle casings, as have always wondered how they got the Gp2 cars to weigh so little. A light axle would make a lot of difference- a thick tube steel one weighs a ton! Can you recollect if the hubs were fully floating like the rally ones or again lighter and simpler?

If the Wooding cars were in ETC then presumably you were building for endurance, so even though axles were very light must have been strong as well?
Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2011, 08:48 (Ref:2826410)   #36
zakspeed65
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 109
zakspeed65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi All,
The 72 Cologne Capri uses the same Alloy Upright and Front Leg Unit as my Gp5 Escort. I think it is therefore possible that they were used by Ford supported teams like Mann and Broadspeed.

I add some photos of the Zakspeed Gp2 Top Strut Mounts and Front Uprights, All Raw Castings in Magnesium, it is my understanding that DRM regs of the day stated that "Original" mounting points and holes must be used. These units were therefore used to add more Caster. The Uprights were carried over to the Gp5 cars.

Hope this helps, I know the effort that goes into this type of research.

Cheers.
Attached Thumbnails
Magnesium castings 1.jpg   Magnesium castings 2.jpg   Magnesium castings 3.jpg  

zakspeed65 is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2011, 12:46 (Ref:2826552)   #37
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zakspeed65 View Post
Hi All,
The 72 Cologne Capri uses the same Alloy Upright and Front Leg Unit as my Gp5 Escort. I think it is therefore possible that they were used by Ford supported teams like Mann and Broadspeed.

I add some photos of the Zakspeed Gp2 Top Strut Mounts and Front Uprights, All Raw Castings in Magnesium, it is my understanding that DRM regs of the day stated that "Original" mounting points and holes must be used. These units were therefore used to add more Caster. The Uprights were carried over to the Gp5 cars.

Hope this helps, I know the effort that goes into this type of research.

Cheers.
Hi Gary, I reckon you are correct that Escort used same parts as the Capri, it makes a lot of sense especially as Broadspeed were involved with both. Not sure about AMR Escorts though as the cars date back to late 60s.

Thanks for taking the trouble to show your pics! BTW think your car looks better in Mampe colours than in Electrolux.
Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 6 Feb 2011, 16:48 (Ref:2826720)   #38
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thank you everyone for your help! I know if someone is digging into this someone will have interesting info about the cars

More info is welcome!

Mike: email me at johan(at)johansvahn.com (www.johansvahn.com)
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Feb 2011, 12:33 (Ref:2829605)   #39
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Although some light has been shed on the Zakspeed Escort Mk1 front suspension for Johan, there is still so much to learn about these cars. It would be great if some more information could be gleaned from those around at the time!

The rear suspension layout, for example- especially the damper position. Consensus is that they didn't use the Broadspeed / Boreham / Wooding torsion bars, so where were the coils / dampers sited- inboard of chassis or....?

Another question. The cars were light considering the rules were strict on removing metal. How was this achieved? On same theme, were the wheelarch extensions fibreglass, steel or aluminium? I always assumed due to the shape that they were the former, but were they- aluminium would be lighter?

Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Feb 2011, 13:09 (Ref:2829634)   #40
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
http://johansvahn.com/projecte/ClassicFordJuly2009.pdf

Can anyone confirm that Zakspeed had the rear dampers as the car in the magazine?

I think they used aluminium rollcage -> to get close to the minimum weight

Things that are clear at the moment:
- Top plates
- Rear axle -> aluminium
- Lower wishbone
jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Feb 2011, 13:24 (Ref:2829646)   #41
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
Hi Johan. That is the car I have seen. As I said before it is not certain if the modifications are subsequent to it's Finotto days. Certainly a lot of things have changed!

Yes, probably correct about the alloy roll cage, they were legal at that time.

Hope you got my emails!
Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Feb 2011, 13:30 (Ref:2829651)   #42
jsvahn
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Finland
Finland
Posts: 35
jsvahn should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did you get my email Mike?

Here are some more photos:

Seen this car on some website/forum and they say it should be an old JollyClub Mk1.








The inner wheel arches are much, much bigger than original.. Did they change them also??



jsvahn is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Feb 2011, 18:56 (Ref:2829784)   #43
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 1,911
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In the Broadspeed shell that I had lightness had been added by a series of 2 inch holes in all the non-stress bearing panels inside the cockpit.
morninggents is online now  
Quote
Old 12 Feb 2011, 09:06 (Ref:2830000)   #44
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 11,085
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
My 3rd attempt at this post. IE your days are numbered

Johan, nothing in inbox. More interesting pics thanks. See the Jolly Club car dampers also come through boot floor.

Having read period AppJ stuff forwards, backwards, upside down etc have got my ideas on what was and wasn't allowed regards keeping weight down. Comments please!

From 1971 to 1974 incl you could-

Use lightweight transmission and axle parts.
Use lightweight engine ancilliaries and cooling system components.
Use lightweight doors, bonnet, boot, side windows.
Lighten / remove material from non visible parts of interior.
Remove non visible insulating material.

Not possible-

To remove heater.
To change front seats unless ballasted to original weight.
To remove visible dash, door, side trims etc from interior.
To remove door handle and window mechanisms- but assume if not visible could be lightened?

No mention of retaining rear seating or spare wheel, but as AppJ Gp2 was just extension of Gp1 assume the latter rules apply and these had to be in place- Were they?

For the single 1975 year regs changes were-

Allowed to remove water pipes from heater as long as ventilation still worked.
Allowed to remove rear seating and following that allowed to place spare wheel in rear of habiticle. (Now mentioned )

Big change in the no-no's though- Not allowed lightweight bonnet, boot, doors or sideglass....

Then in 1976 when the rules changed dramatically all above went but not relevant to Mk1 Escort by then. Interestingly, despite the more restrictive regs you could now remove the front passenger seat and heater!

Mike Bell is online now  
Quote
Old 12 Feb 2011, 11:35 (Ref:2830055)   #45
Frank de Jong
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Netherlands
Amsterdam
Posts: 312
Frank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridFrank de Jong should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post

From 1971 to 1974 incl you could-

Use lightweight transmission and axle parts.
Use lightweight doors, bonnet, boot, side windows.


No mention of retaining rear seating or spare wheel, but as AppJ Gp2 was just extension of Gp1 assume the latter rules apply and these had to be in place- Were they?
You could use a different gearbox, but it had to be homologates. Lightweight bodyparts were banned after 1970 (which hurt Alfa Romo especially) but if the homologated car had alu doors for instance (like the BMW CSL) it was allowed, of course.

Rear seat could be removed, spare wheel was mandatory and it had to have the same diameter as the other wheels - but the width was free; so the Ford Capri had a bicycle wheel as a spare...
Frank de Jong is offline  
__________________
Frank de Jong
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Group 5 Zakspeed Escort zakspeed65 Motorsport History 366 17 Jan 2018 16:38
Mk1 Escort Historic Racer rfl Historic Racing Today 18 29 May 2006 22:49
1974 Iroc IROC#9 Motorsport History 2 25 Jan 2006 19:39
Nick Whiting,s Mk1 Escort Superloon Motorsport History 14 14 Jan 2005 21:18
1974 demo F1 C gttouring Virtual Racers 12 17 Dec 2004 13:18


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 14:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.