[WEC] WEC 2019/20 season

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Canaglia's post #221 says it well with the correct summation---if GT3 could run at GTE levels, it would cost GTE money and most fo the teams would go to GT4 or whatever was a step down where they could afford to be competitive.

Yet it's been reported that the best way to go GTE racing with a 488 is buy a 488 GT3 and get the GTE upgrade kit. That's reportedly actually cheaper than buying a 488 GTE.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

A GT3 car ran in SuperGT spec

GT300 is an official SRO category, it doesn't get much more GT3. Just the only open tire GT3 pretty much anywhere.

Last year GTE was faster than GT300, but this year's spring Fuji pole was like .013 faster than last year's fastest GTE lap. But that's just qualifying, the race fastest lap was a second slower than last fall's for GTE, but last spring's drier spring race had a GT300 fastest lap better than that. In general they seem quite close and are swung by conditions. That's at Fuji however, which as a power circuit perhaps better favors GT3 cars than some other tracks would.

That 6s around Spa last year? That only exists in qualifying. GTE was 3 seconds faster in qualifying than the race while in Blancpain the fastest race laps were within almost half a second of qualifying, presumably in large part because they don't have the tire selection the GTE teams do. Plus a little happy hour. So that really only gives you 4 seconds around a long track with a lot of turns, which you can fairly realistically account for from tire differences.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Yet it's been reported that the best way to go GTE racing with a 488 is buy a 488 GT3 and get the GTE upgrade kit. That's reportedly actually cheaper than buying a 488 GTE.

And yet it's still more money than a GT3 car is all the comparison is useless. Unless you're trying to discuss pricing strategies then maybe we would have something but AMR hasn't said their package is cheaper buying a GT3 and the upgrade. Or at least that I've seen. And I'm guessing it's not an easy swap to make your GTE car, and time is money. It might be cheaper in cash to Ferrari but what's your team's time worth? If your Risi and someone is buying a Ferrari for you as a collector, well then options are great and they can get lots of race history. Unless it goes in to the wall at LM and then not so much

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

GT300 is an official SRO category, it doesn't get much more GT3. Just the only open tire GT3 pretty much anywhere.

Last year GTE was faster than GT300, but this year's spring Fuji pole was like .013 faster than last year's fastest GTE lap. But that's just qualifying, the race fastest lap was a second slower than last fall's for GTE, but last spring's drier spring race had a GT300 fastest lap better than that. In general they seem quite close and are swung by conditions. That's at Fuji however, which as a power circuit perhaps better favors GT3 cars than some other tracks would.

That 6s around Spa last year? That only exists in qualifying. GTE was 3 seconds faster in qualifying than the race while in Blancpain the fastest race laps were within almost half a second of qualifying, presumably in large part because they don't have the tire selection the GTE teams do. Plus a little happy hour. So that really only gives you 4 seconds around a long track with a lot of turns, which you can fairly realistically account for from tire differences.

agree, BES gt3 and gte laptimes can't be compared because BES cars use pirelli, basically the worst available racing tires...


cars in gt-open use michelin customers spec compound and are 3 seconds faster than BES at spa.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Yet it's been reported that the best way to go GTE racing with a 488 is buy a 488 GT3 and get the GTE upgrade kit. That's reportedly actually cheaper than buying a 488 GTE.

let's say it's a clever way to take part at le mans and gt3 series with the same chassis, considering the evo kit is reasonable cheap (about 20.000€).
Anyway big issue is that 488 gt3 is however a very expensive car, the most expensive along new vantage gt3 if am I not wrong.

Aside that, if you're not under the AF corse umbrella, forget to receive support from the factory....

basically the exact reasons that made lambo huracan the gt3 best seller of the recent years. Competitive price tag, amateur friendly and easier to set-up, decent support from the factory for everyone.

[Anyopenroad]

I see no reason for GTE to exist. Factories spending huge amounts of money to make a car which goes only a little faster and looks essentially identical to one which can be bought off the shelf is insane.

Allowing factory-supported/run teams to enter WEC/Le Mans with GT3 cars immediately boosts grid variety, reduces costs and goes some way to simplifying global sportscar racing.

[Maelochs]

GTE/GTLM exists so factories can have a class in which to compete against other factories ...

And those street cars ... i doubt most of them would last a sprint race, and forget a serious endurance race.

In some cases the GTE versions have less power ... but they are race cars. They can run at sprint speed for 24 hours, they can protect the drivers in high-speed crashes, they are designed so major components can be changed or repaired at high speed .... A street-legal, showroom-stock 488 couldn't keep up with a GT3 or GTE at all.

Also ... GTE cars are built to controlled specs so manufacturers know they will have a fair playing field---whether an oversized boat like the BMW or an everyman's car like the Corvette, or a serious sports car like the Ferrari.

[Anyopenroad]

By 'off the shelf' I meant GT3 cars, not street cars. Sorry for being unclear. I promise I do understand the difference between a race car and a road car! :-)

Originally Posted by Maelochs

GTE/GTLM exists so factories can have a class in which to compete against other factories ...

MTEK run BMW's factory cars, Ganassi run Ford's factory cars in WEC. WRT and Black Falcon (for example) run Audi/AMG GT3s with factory support in Spa and Nurburgring 24s. There's effectively no difference. The 'factory' largely or entirely outsources the running of the cars.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Also ... GTE cars are built to controlled specs so manufacturers know they will have a fair playing field---whether an oversized boat like the BMW or an everyman's car like the Corvette, or a serious sports car like the Ferrari.

It still takes BOP to equalise them. GT3 homologation/BOP achieves exactly the same end result.

I do see a point in manufacturers getting to race their GT race cars against each other. I just don't think that needs to the the extra expense and complication of a GTE when using GT3s could achieve the exact same thing with less cost and more variety.

[Mike E]

Dempsey Proton confirmed for 2 cars in GTE Am again.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...wec-plans.html

[joeb]

I've got a general question, has the deadline for entries passed already? and if so when do we see the list?

[chernaudi]

DSC have made references to there being a list, but I don't know if the ACO have officially published it yet.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

Toyota's hit with EOT Change for Le Mans

Don't get too excited, it was a 10kg increase in weight.

Never mind all that, Zyteks getting yet another weight break against AER makes no sense really

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by joeb

I've got a general question, has the deadline for entries passed already? and if so when do we see the list?

Yes, a couple of days ago.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Yes, a couple of days ago.

Does it appear that GTE Pro is going to be a 6 car grid then with 2 of each from AF Corse Ferrari, Aston Martin Racing, and Porsche GT Team?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Does it appear that GTE Pro is going to be a 6 car grid then with 2 of each from AF Corse Ferrari, Aston Martin Racing, and Porsche GT Team?

yeah... back to 2015

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by canaglia

yeah... back to 2015

Too bad, GTE pro is what kept me into the WEC from 2017 to 2019 (aside from the Porsche 919 in 2017). This series might take a few pegs down in my list of interested sportscar series. Right now I put WEC right there with IMSA. But with this, it could drop down below all of the various GT3 series I watch.

[canaglia]

well, ford likely will put an end to their ford gt program in IMSA as well; while BMW is just running away from WEC...

[chernaudi]

It's been rumored that Ford might sell GTs off to privateer teams, but I'll also believe that when I see it.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

It's been rumored that Ford might sell GTs off to privateer teams, but I'll also believe that when I see it.

Perhaps, however I think it is much more optimistic that a Ford GT will be in IMSA in 2020. I'd give it 70%. Whereas to see a Ford GT full time WEC (pro or am) about 10%

[TF110]

I was pretty sure there's going to be a private run Ford or two next year. Too bad about BMW, but maybe they should try to run something that doesn't need so much work to be competitive. The speed finally got there but from MTEK's words it seems it's a little more difficult to set up the car and to work on for repairs.

[chernaudi]

I don't know why BMW just won't build a true successor to the M1. The Z4 is more of a true sport/GT car as far as a GTE platform than the M8 was. Toyota even built a version of the Supra (which shares it's basic chassis with the Z4) as a GT3/GTE-like car, even though it was just for promo purposes and basically just to have a working example of a car that Toyota developed for Gran Turismo Sport.

However, given that both the Supra and the Z4 are powered either by a 2.0 four banger or a 3.0 straight 6, both are a bit small for GTE use. Which means likely a V8 would be used, but under current GTE rules, BMW would have to build a certain number of road cars for homolgation purposes.

But then again, Audi and Mercedes-Benz haven't seriously looked at GTE (Audi are even rumored to be pulling the plug on a racing version of the R8, as its replacement is rumored to be a hybrid or all-electric), Lamborghini has been rumored to be looking at GTE but nothing solid has come of that. Ford might sell GTs off to private teams, but I'll believe that when I see it (as I said previously), and GM doesn't seem to be willing to support a Pro GTE/GTLM effort outside of IMSA.

Maybe the ACO might adopt GT3 eventually, or there might be a GTE/GT3 convergence, though talks with that have repeatedly stalled.

[TF110]

The Z4 is too small to work as a GTE type car. I think the wheelbase is too short. It's better as a GT4/TCR type car, from Toyota's words at least.

[chernaudi]

All the more reason to develop a true M1 successor. Granted, that didn't stop BMW from developing the last generation Z4 for IMSA competition, but it only ever raced there.

But then again, the only reason the SLS AMG and the AMG GT existed/exist for Mercedes-Benz was to give Mercedes-AMG a halo car. Same thing for the Audi R8, to give quattro GmbH/Audi Sport a halo car, which is sort of redundant considering that VAG own Lamborghini though Audi, which is another reason reportedly why Audi may be replacing the R8 with a hybrid or electric sports car.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

DSC have made references to there being a list, but I don't know if the ACO have officially published it yet.

Originally Posted by Mike E

Yes, a couple of days ago.

Thanks, I guess I just need to be patient. But I never understand why series don't release the entry list when it is available. Presumably they know who is going to show up.

[Deleted]

Maybe they're saving it off for Le Mans week, you know in order to compensate for another lackluster (non-)clarification of 2020-21 rules coming out at that time