[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Im an Aussie and a dan fan, but I think he has burned all his bridges. He really has not shone since he left RB. I believe next year that seat will have Colton in it. Who knows where Danny will be?

Aussie Supercars or s5000? Or just kicking back with his very fat multi million bank account.

How about a wild card entry at bathurst 12 hour or 1000 Danny and Weber sharing a car.... team red bull of course. promoters dream

Don’t know the bridges have burned.. but when you keep getting the team engineering boss apologising for the choices of his team, plus the engineer asking on the radio if the car is ok rather than the pilot.. the team love definitely appears to be missing for some reason.

Sad.

[S griffin]

Ricciardo had a good second half of last year. This year the car hasn’t been great, but he still seems to be lacking something compared to Norris. I do hope he manages to rediscover his mojo somehow

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It's a bit sad to see, he's in the same boat as Vettel IMO.

Perhaps WEC awaits, I certainly don't see him moving to Indy cars.

Maybe he should?

[gomick]

Yes, look at what Marcus Ericsson has now achieved - maybe he could do a straight swap with Pato O'Ward...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gomick

Yes, look at what Marcus Ericsson has now achieved - maybe he could do a straight swap with Pato O'Ward...

I think Colton Herta has got the McLaren drive.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think Colton Herta has got the McLaren drive.

It's not clear cut. Is Rossi replacing Rosenqvist or covering for O'Ward?

I can't imagine Pato signing for 2 more years is solely for Indycar. He will be doing F1 FP and testing later this year as well as Herta.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think Colton Herta has got the McLaren drive.

I think we might see Gasly there

[Alan52]

The repeated failure of nearly everyone coming from Indycar to Formula 1 starting at Michael Andretti and including Zanardi,de Matta and Bourdais should be a warning to any F1 boss that is thinking of hiring an Indycar driver .Even more so now that the cars are so much slower in comparison to F1 cars than they were back in the day.That drivers with F1 records like Rossi and Ericcson can jump in and win the 500 should also send alarm bells.
If I was running a team I would want anyone coming in to do a year in F2 so at least there would be a point of comparison with other options.Putting Colton Herta in there now may well turn out to be a train wreck.

[chunterer]

I think the current F1 cars will suit Indycar guys much better than the previous generation cars.

Plus it's relatively easy to get a good feel of how good any driver is with all the sim and data logging stuff available these days.

After that it's upto driver (and team) to make it work.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It's not clear cut. Is Rossi replacing Rosenqvist or covering for O'Ward?

I can't imagine Pato signing for 2 more years is solely for Indycar. He will be doing F1 FP and testing later this year as well as Herta.

O'Ward just signed an extension to the end of 2025 and it looks like Rossi is replacing Rosenqvist.

https://racer.com/2022/06/01/rossi-t...expected-soon/

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

O'Ward just signed an extension to the end of 2025 and it looks like Rossi is replacing Rosenqvist.

https://racer.com/2022/06/01/rossi-t...expected-soon/

They're definitely going to three cars.
So Rosenquist is not gone yet and may not leave at all.
Still on the table.
Other third driver option rumours include Veekay and Palou.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

O'Ward just signed an extension to the end of 2025 and it looks like Rossi is replacing Rosenqvist.

https://racer.com/2022/06/01/rossi-t...expected-soon/

But the contract is with Mclaren, presumably to deive in any category with them.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chunterer

But the contract is with Mclaren, presumably to deive in any category with them.

One would imagine so, knowing O'Wards personal objectives, not to mention McLaren F1's interest in an American driver. I must admit the official press release I read seemed to be more Indycar focused.... but that I would see as a deliberate ambiguity. Any mention of O'Ward and F1 in the same sentence in that context from McLaren, would (likely) be turned by the "internet mentality" (present company here an exception) into a clickbait frenzy of "Ricciardo out O'Ward in" (for 2023) headlines throughout social media.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

But the contract is with Mclaren, presumably to deive in any category with them.

O'Ward's contract is with AMSP.


https://www.indycar.com/news/2022/05...ward-extension

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Alan52

The repeated failure of nearly everyone coming from Indycar to Formula 1 starting at Michael Andretti and including Zanardi,de Matta and Bourdais should be a warning to any F1 boss that is thinking of hiring an Indycar driver .Even more so now that the cars are so much slower in comparison to F1 cars than they were back in the day.That drivers with F1 records like Rossi and Ericcson can jump in and win the 500 should also send alarm bells.
If I was running a team I would want anyone coming in to do a year in F2 so at least there would be a point of comparison with other options.Putting Colton Herta in there now may well turn out to be a train wreck.

Jaques Villenuerve did alright

[steve_r]

Also - Zanardi was an F1 driver who whent to Indycars and then back to F1. Just to be pedantic.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Also - Zanardi was an F1 driver who whent to Indycars and then back to F1. Just to be pedantic.

He went back again to CART in 2001 and had that accident at the Lausitzring.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Jaques Villenuerve did alright

So did Montoya until Kimi wiped the floor with him.Montoya only had a short time in the US and was pretty successful in the Euro junior formulas before that.He had proven himself.
Villeneuve is a different situation.I asked a friend of mine who went to the Gold Coast Indycar races when Villeneuve was racing there if any of the drivers were capable of being successful in F1.He said Villeneuve was the only one with a smooth enough driving style to make it fit and a lot of the drivers were basically NASCAR drivers on holidays.Remember then that drivers coming in could do pretty much unlimited testing which is he complete opposite of now.If Colton Herta thinks he is ready to be a success in F1 he should pretty much wipe the floor in F2.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Alan52

So did Montoya until Kimi wiped the floor with him.Montoya only had a short time in the US and was pretty successful in the Euro junior formulas before that.He had proven himself.
Villeneuve is a different situation.I asked a friend of mine who went to the Gold Coast Indycar races when Villeneuve was racing there if any of the drivers were capable of being successful in F1.He said Villeneuve was the only one with a smooth enough driving style to make it fit and a lot of the drivers were basically NASCAR drivers on holidays.Remember then that drivers coming in could do pretty much unlimited testing which is he complete opposite of now.If Colton Herta thinks he is ready to be a success in F1 he should pretty much wipe the floor in F2.

Even so, with all respects how much of JV's success was down to the fact he had the best car under him. Yes he did well, often matching his teamate, but success never followed him when he moved to BAR and Sauber / Sauber BMW, or briefly at Renault. I know he had reliability issues early in the BAR days, but with a less than top car he struggled to match or beat his team mates.

Im not trying to make it an anti JV thing by any means but if someone of his prowess struggled in a less than top car, how will the newer wave of Indycar drivers such as Herta Palou and O'Ward etc fair? Do they need to, as Montoya did, do the hard yards in the F1 feeder system and the Euro system (and tyres) to be F1 ready?

I have to admit I am no longer able to follow Indycar closely so I might be out of touch.... it is no longer on our pay/cable or FTA TV, only by streaming subscriptions or online highlights.

[S griffin]

Struggled to match or beat his team mates? He completely dominated Zonta and while Panis was sometimes ahead of him, generally JV had the upper hand. Against Button it was a different story though.

People sell JV short. He wasted the best years in average cars, but he still gave it his all and was able to show he still had talent when he had the chance. Let's face it, he was one of the few he did not fear the Schumi

[S griffin]

Struggled to match or beat his team mates? He completely dominated Zonta and while Panis was sometimes ahead of him, generally JV had the upper hand. Against Button it was a different story though.

People sell JV short. He wasted the best years in average cars, but he still gave it his all and was able to show he still had talent when he had the chance. Let's face it, he was one of the few he did not fear the Schumi

[chillibowl]

For about 4-5 years he was mega but he was never the same after he won his title imo. Don’t know if it was the money or if his motivation changed after winning.

Had he pulled a Nico and retired after winning his chip he might have been remembered as one of the greats instead he’s a tale of two careers…perhaps also a compelling story in its own right.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

For about 4-5 years he was mega but he was never the same after he won his title imo. Don’t know if it was the money or if his motivation changed after winning.

Had he pulled a Nico and retired after winning his chip he might have been remembered as one of the greats instead he’s a tale of two careers…perhaps also a compelling story in its own right.

I still dont get the constant negative commentary from Mr Villeneuve in every press article attributed to him.
Arguably Marc Surer's take on the world is similarly bleak..

Where is Mr Jordan to go sex up the paddock gossip mill

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I still dont get the constant negative commentary from Mr Villeneuve in every press article attributed to him.
Arguably Marc Surer's take on the world is similarly bleak..

Where is Mr Jordan to go sex up the paddock gossip mill

I suspect the Paddock got fed up with his more and more outlandish “predictions” and attention seeking. No point being Bernie’s messenger when Bernie is no longer there ….

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by E.B

how will the newer wave of Indycar drivers such as Herta Palou and O'Ward etc fair?

OT here.


Herta, O'Ward, Palou, and Veekay all have the required speed. Latifi and Mazepin they are not.


However, of the those four, I'm convinced that Palou is the most 'F1' of them. The other three are pretty wild and inconsistent. Palou has the same speed, but also the consistency that that is required to fully get to know a new car and way of working.



I'd like to see them all get an F1 chance, if they wanted it, but I know that isn't very likely.