[Official] Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 21 of 22

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Did I miss something but I don't remember Verstappen using 2 different compound tyres during the race. He changed to fresh set of mediums at the first red flag but I don't remember any more tyre changes as he was on mediums at the finish.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

You'd like to think that for the final race, it would be made clear to all the drivers that blatantly 'divebombing' another car, forcing another car off track or using run off to complete a move will be an absolute no-no and anyone doing so, whether a title protagonist or not, will be dealt with robustly.

Yeah, it will be dealt with under the rules.

The same rules as at every race.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

You'd like to think that for the final race, it would be made clear to all the drivers that blatantly 'divebombing' another car, forcing another car off track or using run off to complete a move will be an absolute no-no and anyone doing so, whether a title protagonist or not, will be dealt with robustly.

"Robustly" would have to mean a points deduction or a DQ from the entire season if the result of the infringement was taking a rival out. Anything else is irrelevant. Do the rules allow for that?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

"Robustly" would have to mean a points deduction or a DQ from the entire season if the result of the infringement was taking a rival out. Anything else is irrelevant. Do the rules allow for that?

I would like to think that they do, because, after all, even Michael Schumacher had all his points removed for his egregious tactics. Although, regretfully, if my memory is correct, he didn't get that penalty for taking out Damon Hill in a previous season.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I would like to think that they do, because, after all, even Michael Schumacher had all his points removed for his egregious tactics. Although, regretfully, if my memory is correct, he didn't get that penalty for taking out Damon Hill in a previous season.

I think - the Sporting Regulations in themselves do not give that authority to the Stewards.
But - the Stewards (or a competitor appeal - and I'm sure Mercedes would) can see a matter referred to The FIA World Motor Sport Council.

That is what happened in the case of TGF:
'The World Council found that Michael Schumacher's manoeuvre was an instinctive reaction and although deliberate not made with malice or premeditation. It was a serious error. The World Council decided to exclude Michael Schumacher from the results of the 1997 FIA Formula One World Championship for drivers. The final results of the FIA Formula One World Championship have been modified accordingly. The results of the Constructors' Championship remain unchanged. Michael Schumacher retains his points and victories recorded during the 1997 season.'

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I would like to think that they do, because, after all, even Michael Schumacher had all his points removed for his egregious tactics. Although, regretfully, if my memory is correct, he didn't get that penalty for taking out Damon Hill in a previous season.

He took Hill out in '94, winning the WDC by one point.

[Mike Harte]

Thanks for that guys; at least I do still possess a few marbles up top!

I think that the teams' bosses might take a more proactive stance towards their drivers' on-track antics if they thought that the Council might strip them of some or all of the Constructor points, because points mean money, and if Marko or Horner thought that they might have reduced budget, they might act differently to Verstappen's manoeuvrers.

[Skam85]

Let's not forget Michael's tactic against JV was 24yrs ago.

The rules and application of penalties are different these days, you commonly saw drivers receive race bans for incidents in the past.

If anything happened in Abu Dhabi, the penalty will be applied within the bounds of the rules - they can't and won't just change it "because it's the final race". (although there is some merit in discussing increased or double penalties for the last race of the season)

And in the off chance they do, we're going to spend the entire off-season debating the RB v Mercedes v FIA legal battle.

[porsche962fan]

if that's the case that Maxi could not be stripped of all points if he does the dirty thing what would hinder mercedes to put Bottas to crash into him as precaution ?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think some of the blame has to lie with the instruction from his team.

'Hand the place back, but do it strategically' (or words to that effect). So he was doing much more than just slowing to let Hamilton past. He wanted to control when Hamilton passed, in terms of DRS activation and line(s) taken.

Do it strategically! How is this allowed? In the past it wasn’t.

Strategically? Make sure you get an unfair advantage when you let the driver past. Why do I have to let him past?
Well you gained an unfair advantage.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Do it strategically! How is this allowed? In the past it wasn’t.

Strategically? Make sure you get an unfair advantage when you let the driver past. Why do I have to let him past?
Well you gained an unfair advantage.

Strategically doesn't necessarily mean doing a dodgy though.

Strategically could also mean do it where it doesn't disadvantage him as much as on another part of the track.

[Adam43]

Like just staying on line and easing off slightly on a straight.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Although, regretfully, if my memory is correct, he didn't get that penalty for taking out Damon Hill in a previous season.

No there was never a penalty issued. ISTR reading that it was never taken further because SFW and PH did not want to have the driver's title decided in a court room out of respect to the loss of Senna earlier that year in their car. They had also already won the (to them) more important Constructors title. Because Williams were not prepared to officially protest MS the FIA took it no further.
Happy to be corrected but that is my memory with reading back after the event and retrospective team comments.

Edit: OK, curiosity re was my memory correct had me go online to see if I could find something to reassure me / my memory. I did not find the article I remember reading, but I did find one saying basically the same. it seems it was indeed a retrospective (maybe years later)interview with (S)PH. Link follows: https://rec.autos.sport.f1.narkive.c...heated-in-1994

[Taxi645]

If they can block the DRS on the first straight after the pass, then this would all be much less of a problem

[Knowlesy]

Would a good solution on a lot of the tracks be a long lap penalty? They do this in MotoGP and it works a treat.

For going off track to retain position you could just get them to do two or three of them in a row.

Obviously this requires quick decisions from race control, so it is a bit fanciful.

[S griffin]

The long lap penalty works well in MotoGP, but then they are about a quarter of the width of an F1 car, so not sure it would necessarily work in F1

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The long lap penalty works well in MotoGP, but then they are about a quarter of the width of an F1 car, so not sure it would necessarily work in F1

Formula E manages it with thinner tracks.

[Knowlesy]

Have you seen the tarmac runoff most tracks have?

Places like Monaco it is obviously not possible.

[Aysedasi]

Well, credit to Marko for the apology - not that there was much choice. I guess it was too much to hope that Horner would be as contrite...

[ascarracinguk]

Be nice to get an apology from Horner and Max now.....doubt it will be forthcoming though

[Knowlesy]

Apologies from such people are worthless, so who cares.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Apologies from such people are worthless, so who cares.

It's also a little late in coming. I am surprised Marko bothered.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's also a little late in coming. I am surprised Marko bothered.

For clarity - the apology was made on 7th Dec, and appears to only have reached English-speaking media on the 8th.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Be nice to get an apology from Horner and Max now.....

They seem genuinely to believe there’s nothing to apologise for. In what amounts to a puff piece in The Times today Horner refers to Hamilton driving into the back of Verstappen with no mention of Verstappen braking.

The extent of Horner’s eulogising of Verstappen is also extraordinary. Apparently he is single-handedly making up for having a slower car built by plucky underdogs fighting the mighty corporate machine that is Mercedes, all the while being treated unfairly by stewards and race control.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

They seem genuinely to believe there’s nothing to apologise for. In what amounts to a puff piece in The Times today Horner refers to Hamilton driving into the back of Verstappen with no mention of Verstappen braking.

The extent of Horner’s eulogising of Verstappen is also extraordinary. Apparently he is single-handedly making up for having a slower car built by plucky underdogs fighting the mighty corporate machine that is Mercedes, all the while being treated unfairly by stewards and race control.

Maybe Horners got his head so far up Verstappens A-Hole that he cant actually see reality....