[Official] Qatar Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 20 of 22

[ascarracinguk]

Any news on rear wings? Documentation on FIA website says they’ve all been checked but nothing about any failures

[Lancsbreaker]

I think it says that everything has been checked and found compliant.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I think it says that everything has been checked and found compliant.

Perez 10th, Max potential grid drop, Mercedes compliant and Lewis on pole?

Bad day for Karen if true!

I really do hope that’s the end of the wing saga, his whining is getting a bit much

Edit:

Yes you’re correct. Bottom of the document. All items are compliment.

Thank god for that.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Qatar%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20P3%20and%20Qualifying%20scrutineering.pdf

[crmalcolm]

I'm not sure of the order the drivers came through.
Could it be that double-yellows were briefly shown when Max came through, and these were reduced to single yellow when Bottas and Sainz then passed?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not sure of the order the drivers came through.
Could it be that double-yellows were briefly shown when Max came through, and these were reduced to single yellow when Bottas and Sainz then passed?

Correct.

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere, but does anyone have a reason to why Gasly didn’t pit instead of carrying on, causing a yellow flag?

Seems like a strange decision….so with a tin foil hat on, who was he trying to screw over by bringing out a yellow?

[steve_r]

Gaslys incident happened very close to the pit lane entry. I rekon he only had a second or two to decide whther to come in or stay out. Certainly not long enough to do an evil laugh and create a cunning plan to screw over anyone else.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Gaslys incident happened very close to the pit lane entry. I rekon he only had a second or two to decide whther to come in or stay out. Certainly not long enough to do an evil laugh and create a cunning plan to screw over anyone else.

Ahhh that’s fair enough, I thought it happened a little bit before that. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t class him as a dirty driver, just seemed strange.

It would be ironic if an AT cost Verstappen twice in 3 weekends….

[Greem]

Blimey.

I watched quali earlier and it was really exciting at the end.

I came to Tenths a few minutes ago and it looks like World War 3 has broken out. Chill out, people, as is well known tribalism and blinkers aren't really welcome here.

For clarity: light panels are secondary to flags. Them's the rules. The *only* mitigation for passing a single or double waved yellow without making any effort to slow down, or be prepared to stop, is if race control have told the teams to ignore them as they're in the process of being withdrawn. The flag positions are, as has been pointed out already, in the briefing notes handed out by the race director at the beginning of the meeting; it is in the hands of the driver (or the eyes, more accurately) as to whether they see the flags or act when seeing them.

Yes they're old fashioned, yes they're archaic, but the thing about them is that they don't break if someone stands on a cable or there's a power failure. Sure, flaggies can make mistakes (*cough* using a green instead of blue flag, not that I've ever done that ) but if their judgement and observation starts to be overruled because "no lights on the steering wheel" or "nobody told the drivers" then F1 is in more trouble than it seems.

I'm very interested in how all this plays out, because I have a vested interest in the rules being applied correctly. The sort of bickering we're seeing in F1 at the moment will be present more than ever in all levels of club motorsport before long, "because that's what happened in F1".

Should be an interesting race whatever happens

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Greem

Blimey.

I watched quali earlier and it was really exciting at the end.

I came to Tenths a few minutes ago and it looks like World War 3 has broken out. Chill out, people, as is well known tribalism and blinkers aren't really welcome here.

For clarity: light panels are secondary to flags. Them's the rules. The *only* mitigation for passing a single or double waved yellow without making any effort to slow down, or be prepared to stop, is if race control have told the teams to ignore them as they're in the process of being withdrawn. The flag positions are, as has been pointed out already, in the briefing notes handed out by the race director at the beginning of the meeting; it is in the hands of the driver (or the eyes, more accurately) as to whether they see the flags or act when seeing them.

Yes they're old fashioned, yes they're archaic, but the thing about them is that they don't break if someone stands on a cable or there's a power failure. Sure, flaggies can make mistakes (*cough* using a green instead of blue flag, not that I've ever done that ) but if their judgement and observation starts to be overruled because "no lights on the steering wheel" or "nobody told the drivers" then F1 is in more trouble than it seems.

I'm very interested in how all this plays out, because I have a vested interest in the rules being applied correctly. The sort of bickering we're seeing in F1 at the moment will be present more than ever in all levels of club motorsport before long, "because that's what happened in F1".

Should be an interesting race whatever happens

Likewise. Having been a flag marshal at Donington and Oulton for over a decade, it’s why I keep referring people to rule 7.1, it mentions yellow flags and nothing else.

Yes it’s crude, old fashioned but it’s also the last line of defence and most proactive and speedy solution to an issue on track. A decent flaggie can get a yellow flag out wayyyyy faster than race control can put a light on a steering wheel.

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by Greem

Blimey.

I watched quali earlier and it was really exciting at the end.

I came to Tenths a few minutes ago and it looks like World War 3 has broken out. Chill out, people, as is well known tribalism and blinkers aren't really welcome here.

For clarity: light panels are secondary to flags. Them's the rules. The *only* mitigation for passing a single or double waved yellow without making any effort to slow down, or be prepared to stop, is if race control have told the teams to ignore them as they're in the process of being withdrawn. The flag positions are, as has been pointed out already, in the briefing notes handed out by the race director at the beginning of the meeting; it is in the hands of the driver (or the eyes, more accurately) as to whether they see the flags or act when seeing them.

Yes they're old fashioned, yes they're archaic, but the thing about them is that they don't break if someone stands on a cable or there's a power failure. Sure, flaggies can make mistakes (*cough* using a green instead of blue flag, not that I've ever done that ) but if their judgement and observation starts to be overruled because "no lights on the steering wheel" or "nobody told the drivers" then F1 is in more trouble than it seems.

I'm very interested in how all this plays out, because I have a vested interest in the rules being applied correctly. The sort of bickering we're seeing in F1 at the moment will be present more than ever in all levels of club motorsport before long, "because that's what happened in F1".

Should be an interesting race whatever happens

I agree with you here, however we have a situation where race control have not been clear on the status of the track. It went yellow-green, yellow-green, yellow-green in the space of 45 seconds which has caused confusion all round.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Beau2

I agree with you here, however we have a situation where race control have not been clear on the status of the track. It went yellow-green, yellow-green, yellow-green in the space of 45 seconds which has caused confusion all round.

No. It was yellow. The yellow flag was shown. Rule 7.1 mentions yellow flags, nothing more, there are no mitigating circumstances.

There was no green flag, at no point, anywhere prior to the incident. Drivers take direction from the Marshals, not race control during an incident, in EVERY series from karts to Formula 1. (NASCAR/ Indycar may be the exception on ovals for obvious reasons)

ZERO confusion other than your own.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Nope. The ones that are clearly opposite the waved yellow flag and roughly where Gasly's car is located. You also have the issue of the track not being announced to the Driver's through their steering wheel. It was not communicated properly

Im not taking any sides in this, but just pointing out that a small yellow light on the left side of Max's wheel lights up as he approaches. (I must confess I always imagined this yellow flag warning light to be more 'in your face' than the tiny one that does show.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by E.B

Im not taking any sides in this, but just pointing out that a small yellow light on the left side of Max's wheel lights up as he approaches. (I must confess I always imagined this yellow flag warning light to be more 'in your face' than the tiny one that does show.

Think that’s DRS in all fairness. Certainly coincides with the DRS line

[Beau2]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

No. It was yellow. The yellow flag was shown. Rule 7.1 mentions yellow flags, nothing more, there are no mitigating circumstances.

There was no green flag, at no point, anywhere prior to the incident. Drivers take direction from the Marshals, not race control during an incident, in EVERY series from karts to Formula 1.

ZERO confusion other than your own.

Kindly, read the thread again if you believe there is no confusion here. Nothing has been clear other than your insistence to try and SHOUT down other posters.

Hell, we have two drivers (Max and Bottas) that claim the the yellow signals were not clear. We also have another driver (Vettel) that has jokingly suggested that they attempted to withdraw the yellow flag because Max was coming.

There is also the issue of why Max was apparently shown double yellows, whereas Bottas and Sainz were shown single yellows and Max was behind the two of them and by then the incident was under control. There does seem to have been an attempt to remove the yellow and then stick it back out again.

I think we'll either see no penalties applied or penalties for all three drivers, but I'm sure you'll still claim the FIA are biased toward Verstappen either way.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Think that’s DRS in all fairness. Certainly coincides with the DRS line

Thanks, as I said it did not seem to be as 'in your face' as I imagined the yellow warning system to be. DRS makes sense and as they say 'location is right' in relation to the DRS zone.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Beau2

Kindly, read the thread again if you believe there is no confusion here. Nothing has been clear other than your insistence to try and SHOUT down other posters.

Hell, we have two drivers (Max and Bottas) that claim the the yellow signals were not clear. We also have another driver (Vettel) that has jokingly suggested that they attempted to withdraw the yellow flag because Max was coming.

There is also the issue of why Max was apparently shown double yellows, whereas Bottas and Sainz were shown single yellows and Max was behind the two of them and by then the incident was under control. There does seem to have been an attempt to remove the yellow and then stick it back out again.

I think we'll either see no penalties applied or penalties for all three drivers.

1) I’m not shouting down other posters. You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to disagree, especially when you keep insisting that there was a green flag, when there wasn’t. Confusion here? Only from those trying to find a way out of it for max, or those who haven’t read the rules

2) show me the interview or quotes where max and Bottas say the signals were ‘not clear’ I’ve not seen it

3) so you’re finally admitting max was shown double yellows then? Cool so he broke the rules

4) we agree on something. I think all 3 will be penalised, however IIRC only 1 improved their time….I don’t think Bottas or Sainz did? Happy to be proven wrong on that though

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by E.B

Thanks, as I said it did not seem to be as 'in your face' as I imagined the yellow warning system to be. DRS makes sense and as they say 'location is right' in relation to the DRS zone.

No problem! Tbh you have keener eyes than me on that one, I hadn’t noticed it!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Beau2

There is also the issue of why Max was apparently shown double yellows, whereas Bottas and Sainz were shown single yellows and Max was behind the two of them and by then the incident was under control. There does seem to have been an attempt to remove the yellow and then stick it back out again.

You seemed to have explained why it isn't an issue (Max being shown double yellow).

The Gasly incident caused the yellow flag. The incident looked to be cleared, then when it became clear Gasly was stopping on the side of the track, double yellow waved.

The problem for Max is that the Race Director's Notes say that a single yellow allows you to complete the lap, a double yellow and you must abandon it.....

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Correct.

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere, but does anyone have a reason to why Gasly didn’t pit instead of carrying on, causing a yellow flag?

Seems like a strange decision….so with a tin foil hat on, who was he trying to screw over by bringing out a yellow?

Gasly said post-quali that he was being told to finish the lap and come round to the pits. He realised that wasn't on and parked the car.

Perhaps (my conjecture) Alpha Tauri knew Max was coming up behind and wanted their boy past the finish line so Max wouldn't be shown a yellow flag.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

You seemed to have explained why it isn't an issue (Max being shown double yellow).

The Gasly incident caused the yellow flag. The incident looked to be cleared, then when it became clear Gasly was stopping on the side of the track, double yellow waved.

The problem for Max is that the Race Director's Notes say that a single yellow allows you to complete the lap, a double yellow and you must abandon it.....

Correct.

I think the issue with ‘confusion’ on here is people ‘confusing’ opinion with the rules and video evidence.

Now opinion is fine….we’re all entitled to one, but the simple fact is Max carried on a full lap whilst passing double yellows.

[Lancsbreaker]

I'm slightly confused about the single and double yellows, too, as I thought I remembered Max being last on track, so can't work out how Bottas and Sainz would have seen single yellows whilst Verstappen saw (or should have) double yellows.....Not seen any onboards from Bottas and Sainz, though.

Edit: explanations above posted as I was typing

[chillibowl]

So how about that lap from lewis!

Even when lack of support races isnt a factor, waiting for more laps to be put down, for more rubber to go down, is the typical approach to qualifying.

You try to time it so you cross the line last.

Hambo instead went out with like 3-4 mins left leaving plenty time for Max or Bottas to respond with last minute heroics.

The risk paid off. Have to be good to be lucky and peak Hamilton is good!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Greem

I came to Tenths a few minutes ago and it looks like World War 3 has broken out. Chill out, people, as is well known tribalism and blinkers aren't really welcome here.

I dislike intensely the way the internet has introduced almost fanatical tribal fans to F1 and those fans use of "us" as though they own the team or an integral part of it. It seems to have become a normal thing to use the possessive when discussing the team they follow for some reason. Yes, I am a cranky old fart and proud of it.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

So how about that lap from lewis!

Even when lack of support races isnt a factor, waiting for more laps to be put down, for more rubber to go down, is the typical approach to qualifying.

You try to time it so you cross the line last.

Hambo instead went out with like 3-4 mins left leaving plenty time for Max or Bottas to respond with last minute heroics.

The risk paid off. Have to be good to be lucky and peak Hamilton is good!

I think we’ve seen a few times this year and last that tyre preparation is just/ or more important than a tow or being last on track.

Incredible lap

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Casper

I dislike intensely the way the internet has introduced almost fanatical tribal fans to F1 and those fans use of "us" as though they own the team or an integral part of it. It seems to have become a normal thing to use the possessive when discussing the team they follow for some reason. Yes, I am a cranky old fart and proud of it.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with passion. Silly thing is I actually really like max as a driver, incredible talent. Yes I’m a Hamilton fan but I can appreciate talent, and also criticise drivers (including Hamilton) when it’s due.

What I dislike is people being blinkered and not checking stuff before they post or holding different drivers to different standards….letting some off for comments when they’d chastise other drivers for the same thing. I won’t apologise for correcting them, highlighting that fact or having an alternative view.

Now people can probably accuse me of the same (it’s the way of the internet) but they’re welcome to pull me up on it and point out any posts where I seem to have been overly biased and I can either correct them, explain more thoroughly or admit a mistake.