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Old 23 Sep 2007, 21:03 (Ref:2021280)   #51
kurtiejjj
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I love the DRM. I always seem to like the warsteiner sponsored cars. what is ironic though is that Jörg Obermoser was known as the 'fanta-king' and that he apparently didn't like beer at all. You got to admire the fact that he was sponsored by warsteiner for most of his car, including his TOJ sports cars. The Warsteiner brewery was right on his companys doorstep.

I have been on a few german forum but no-one seems to know what happened to all the dozens of group 5 cars. Only other 320 is the fruit of the loom car, which is in germany in a private collection, it will probaply never be raced again.

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Old 6 Oct 2007, 14:41 (Ref:2032917)   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtiejjj

Only other 320 is the fruit of the loom car, which is in germany in a private collection, it will probaply never be raced again.


Do you mean that car ? I understood that it is the same car which nowdays rests in Alex's garage. It is clearly a GS Tuning car and said to be driven by Obermoser.
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Old 8 Oct 2007, 19:56 (Ref:2035253)   #53
kurtiejjj
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Originally Posted by kurtiejjj
Only other 320 is the fruit of the loom car, which is in germany in a private collection, it will probaply never be raced again.
Sorry chaps I meant ONLY OTHER 320 I KNOW OF is fruit of the loom, or at least it was with JB racing in germany then sold to a private collector. I gather it's not with Alex otherwise I'm sure he would've listed it.

The fruit of the loom car was driven by Höttinger I believe. Indeed it is a GS tuning car. Alex's GS tuning car is as far as I understand the warsteiner Obermoser car.

I wonder what happened to the other DRM 320, the privateer cars, were they all butchered up and fitted with other engines gearboxes etc...
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Old 9 Oct 2007, 12:27 (Ref:2035828)   #54
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The (Bruce) Lynton car was the Frank Gardner (god-awfull) creation. It was built by Frank because he could build a better "mouse-trap" than the factory and take advantages of the Sports Sedan Regs in Australia at the time! It was a pig.

It went form JPS BMW (Grice) to John Briggs (who spent a bag of money at K & A) before being sold to Bruce Lynton then (maybe someone else) then Geoff Munday, unsure from there but ended up with a rotary in it (in NSW) and from all reports, Frank's chassis was still having trouble with that amount of torque!!!!!

The genuine (McLaren) Grp 5 chassis that Grice imported went from JPS (Richards) to Robin Doherty to Rob Burns to the US many years ago!!!!

Last edited by Camaroz; 9 Oct 2007 at 12:30.
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Old 10 Oct 2007, 07:30 (Ref:2036558)   #55
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Hi Camaroz,
The spaceframe 320 built by Gardner I think ended up in Hong Kong but is now in NZ being restored I think.
Regarding the other 2 cars that were in Australia they were not ex McLaren but came from Jim Busby in the US. One car returned to California years ago as you say & is now being restored. The other car I brought to England about 8 years ago & is now being restored in Sweden.

Alex
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Old 10 Oct 2007, 08:54 (Ref:2036631)   #56
ian beckett
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To see some 320 Group 5 cars in their later competition lives try the following site....www.graf-vlad.de Look for Galerien on right side of screen then scroll down to Bilder von Norbert Vogel.Scroll down through the Opels etc until you reach the BMW's.You can click on the photos to enlarge them. Ian.
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 03:32 (Ref:2037385)   #57
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Originally Posted by Alex E
Hi Camaroz,
The spaceframe 320 built by Gardner I think ended up in Hong Kong but is now in NZ being restored I think.
Regarding the other 2 cars that were in Australia they were not ex McLaren but came from Jim Busby in the US. One car returned to California years ago as you say & is now being restored. The other car I brought to England about 8 years ago & is now being restored in Sweden.

Alex
Further to Alex's comment on the space frame 320, I think it was actually discovered in a sad state in Pattaya, Thailand near the Bira circuit in the early 90's and I believe was purchased with a bunch of ex-driving school single seaters, then bought to HK and stored and then to NZ. So someone possibly raced it in Thailand after Australia. I think it still had the rotary in it when found.
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 10:02 (Ref:2037550)   #58
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what Gp5 car did Gerry Tyzack have in the late 70`s early 80`s i saw it at the Brighton Speed trials he also had a 328 and a 3 litre CSL

Brian Chatfield raced a Gp 5 car in the late 80`s/early 90`s i found a photo of it last night going thru my pile of old race photos
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 20:00 (Ref:2038001)   #59
Alex E
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Hi Driftwood,
The car Gerry Tyack had was then sold to Brian Chatfield, he had two 320 Gp 5 cars. The ex Tyack car was chassis #E21-R1-7 and was originally the Hohmann Auto Tecnic car that ran in the DRM in 1977 & was driven by Ronnie Peterson among others. I think Tom Walkinshaw originally brought the car to the UK as he was a good friend of Petersons, I have a letter from TWR stating this. So he must have sold the car to Gerry I would guess early 1980`s. The car is now in the hands os a fellow contributor to this forum, Adrian B.
The second car Chatfield owned was also an interesting car. it was chassis # E21-R1-12 & was the Junior Team car driven by Eddie Cheever for all of the DRM races in 1977 except the first race at Zolder (where he destroyed another car...) and the race at Diepholz where Hans Stuck drove the car in the `BMW Gentlemans Team` when the `Juniors` were banned for one race. is became the BMW Italia 320 & raced in the World Championship by Osella with Francia and Cheever driving.
Fortunately both cars have their original ` ONS Wagenpasses` with their history contained within.

Regards Alex.
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 21:02 (Ref:2038055)   #60
driftwood
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Thaks for info i often wondered what car Tyack had and where it went
where is the 2nd BC car now?
I remember as a sprog watching the BMW Junior team at Brands Gp 5 6 hr race in 76 or 77
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Old 11 Oct 2007, 21:26 (Ref:2038063)   #61
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Hi folks, I just noticed the thread and thought I'd contribute with a copy of an email I received some time back re the JPS cars. Pip in the email is Pip Barker ex spannerman of Team JPS BMW and Ludwig (Goofy) is ex BMW motorsport Germany F one team engine builder and JPS BMW engine builder and driver, but I'm probably telling you stuff that you guys already know. Can I email a pic to someone of a JPS car for someone to post as I can't?
Cheers
David

Hi David,

We met at ECR 2 yrs ago when Pip introduced us.

Some of those ten-tenths guys are still confused about these cars so I thought you would provide this info and pic.

The 320 2 litre was used for display only by JPS team until 1 only race in JPS colours, WSC 1984 Jim/Tony.

I prepared and raced it after that for Glenn Molloy until it was sold and dismantled. I first raced it in form you see in 3 of these pics (FIA GP5 Spec).

We ran the car in 1984 when I broke the Amaroo under 2 litre first time out.

It was changed to Aussie sports sedan specs (narrow 10" wheels) and painted light blue with some lighter Kevlar panels I made from orig moulds.

Although only 2 Litre and using old used tyres off Jim's 635, I always made the division one sports sedan final at Amaroo in the national televised events usually finishing in the top 10 against the likes of the Monzas,Tommos merc, the Jag etc. One pic shows a Young Brad Jones (with hair) getting into Tommo's Monza!

Frank asked if we would help him keep Ludwig interested in staying around ( I think he was thinking of going back home). We agreed to manage him through a process of 5 races to get a race licence and make a name for him in the car. (For Ludwig we imported sticky New Avons for almost every event!)

As agreed, Ludwig was entered (and dominated) in club races to get a licence and progress off his provisional "P" competition licence.

I resumed my driving of the car and continued to develop it in set-up and minor tweaks. The car was easily 3 sec quicker than any other 2 litre sports sedan at Amaroo so the challenge was to keep lowering the lap record which I did over a 5 year period.
Frank was delighted that it was never butchered and was one of the only cars he had ever sold which was developed to go faster. Usually, when a new buyer could not go as quick, the first thing they did was "Fix the car".
We stopped racing it around 1988/89 when the necessary mufflers to meet noise restrictions killed the horsepower. It made all its power between 7500 and 9500 rpm and was measured at 145dba. The car was sold to a Sydney collector then stripped for rebuild but was again sold, then in parts. I went Porsche racing

Molloy also had one of the turbo cars, the last one JPS ran which Jim drove, pic # iii. It is the one from the AIR accident rebuilt lighter and stiffer. You can see it actually had a type of ground effects from this rear shot. It was LHD with a Getrag Box. I drove it with a faulty boost Gauge which meant we were unknowingly running 36 pounds, enough power to spin the 19" x 16"wide soft Dunlops the entire length of O.Park 9500 RPM in 5th which the gearchart said was 175 MPH. We did some demo laps for sponsors etc 45sec lap from standing start.

We sold the car to Rob Doherty, he sold it to Rob Burns who sold it to USA. Last I heard it was running in Historic IMSA.

The other turbo, which Grice drove, was spaceframe with a Hewland Transaxle. Last I saw it was running a Mazda rotary a few years back.
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Old 18 Oct 2007, 21:04 (Ref:2043986)   #62
kurtiejjj
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There was also a yellow rodenstock sponsored space-frame Schnitzer car in 79ish. I don't think it was a big succes as they were rarely seen or was it destroyed or something?

Alex can you shed any light on this car?
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Old 19 Oct 2007, 08:45 (Ref:2044339)   #63
ian beckett
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Schnitzer built this dramatically lower car during the first half of 1979 and hoped it would give Manfred Winkelhock an advantahe over the Zakspeed Capri of Hans Heyer.The car was tested by Winkelhock at the Salzburgring track but appeared to offer no real advantage and the car was not raced until Marc Surer ran it at Hockenheim.Over the winter it was further refined and in the 1980 DRM series two cars were raced By Hans Stuck and Walter Brun. Stuck had some success but the car never gave the leap in performance that was hoped for it.A car was sold to Karl Oppitzhauser from Austria who ran it in a variety of events in vivid orange with white spots! He also bizzarely used it on a hillclimb event with a downhill skiier strapped on the roof! I think Schnitzer retained one car which raced in Thailand(?) driven br Roberto Ravaglia in'84(?) sponsored by JPS in their black with gold pinstripe colours. I do not know of the whereabouts of either car today(anyone know?) Pictures of the car can be found on the Racingsportscars site and also on Oppitzhausers own website. I hope this helps.Ian.
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Old 21 Oct 2007, 08:14 (Ref:2045895)   #64
Alex E
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Hi Driftwood,
The second of the BC cars I owned for a time & ran it at Le Mans Classic, it now has a new owner in the USA where it will go when I have finished a few jobs on it.
It was quite interesting when I stripped it to restore it I found that bulkheads & some of the floor were aluminium, but were obviously made using the production pressing & pop-riveted to the body. When painted black they just looked like all the others.
Alex
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Old 22 Oct 2007, 11:15 (Ref:2047708)   #65
driftwood
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Don

i looked at your webpage www.geocities.com/supersaloon2000
interesting cars!!-is it possible to give the info in english
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Old 22 Nov 2007, 00:20 (Ref:2073046)   #66
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I seek info on 1977 78 79 BMW 320 i ownership of a car i have to restore
I seek info on Gustav Fischer he raced a near dayglo red/orange Bimmer in 1978
I would like to find out any info before the car gets painted in the "wrong" colours
Car was possibly Warsteiner Obermoser car but Jorg said his car from GS Tuning was used in 1978 by Marcus Hottinger in Fruit of the Loom livery and both Fischer and Hottinger race at the same events in 2 or more occasions

1 is Fischer still around?
2 who did he get the car from and who did he sell the car to?
3 Kenneth Lim had a car in 1982 perhaps in the ownership chain of this car again any info to get the car from Fischer to Lim?

I think a german speaker is required and a collection of the german autosport mags for weekly news reports comments and maybe for sale ads to get the info
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Old 22 Nov 2007, 09:00 (Ref:2073229)   #67
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Hi Driftwood,Fischer's car was self built using the remains of one of the Junior Team cars,the one crashed by Eddie Cheever at the opening round of the '77 DRM at Zolder.I have been following the Group 5 320 since its first race and sadly this is one of the cars with little information available about it.I have virtually all the race reports of the DRM series from German magazines of the day,I also speak some German and I have come up with very little and have not been able to track down Herr Fischer.I look forward to seeing what your search can find.All the very best with the rebuild,I envy you you ownership! Ian.
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Old 22 Nov 2007, 10:05 (Ref:2073342)   #68
driftwood
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Thanks Ian
any new son Obermoser car being the fruit of the loom Hottinger car in the private collection?
do u have any more photos or info on Herr Fischer BMW car
any more info on the car being built rom the remains of Cheever car
ie was it a motorsport shell or a std shell Fischer bolted onto with motorsport kit and the cheever running gear
maybe u can PM me with yr email address so yoiu can send me directly some pics scans DNA samples !
I downloaded some 77 78 BMW car pics from the RSC site and i can see variations in front wheels arches rear arches and oil cooler ducts plus rear wings front air dams
The 2 Fruit of Loom cars of Hottinger and Krebs in 78 have different front wheel arches
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Old 22 Nov 2007, 12:44 (Ref:2073469)   #69
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@Driftwood I will have a dig through my 1978 magazines!

Regarding the fruit of the loom cars, there is a Heidegger version and a GS-tuning version.

Heidegger version first appeared 1977, driven Peter Schneeberger.

GS-tuning; well you already know, really.
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Old 22 Nov 2007, 13:19 (Ref:2073494)   #70
driftwood
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Thanks Kurt
yes i have found 1 foto Schneeburger heidegger car
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Old 23 Nov 2007, 12:02 (Ref:2074100)   #71
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There is a mention of a 1975 Fischer-Technik 2002, must be one gustav fischer's cars. It was sold to the same private collection as the hottinger car near niederaula, germany. Look here: http://www.jb-racing.de/fahrzeug/fzgarchiv.htm for more DRM 320s
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Old 23 Nov 2007, 12:15 (Ref:2074111)   #72
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Look red one here; GS-tuning built car, however it is from 1979:



In the back a red 320 I've never seen before



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Old 25 Nov 2007, 01:45 (Ref:2074992)   #73
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who is driving this car in 79?
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Old 25 Nov 2007, 10:22 (Ref:2075084)   #74
ian beckett
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Norisring 1979:First place is Hans-Georg Burger in GS Tuning car,sponsored by Glysantin.second place is either Walter Brun or Edy Brandenburger in Abel Lepitre(champagne) car,they were teammates and had same sponsor and finally is Wolfgang Braun in GS Tuning car backed by Fruit of the Loom.
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Old 25 Nov 2007, 11:04 (Ref:2075096)   #75
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is wolfgang braun in the car Hottinger raced in 78 or the Kreb car?
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