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Old 3 Jul 2014, 19:11 (Ref:3430011)   #1
Go_For_Pole
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TCR International Series

I found this in my mailbox, surprised that TcT or autosport.com don't have it yet. Is this for real?!


TC3™ INTERNATIONAL SERIES ANNOUNCED FOR 2015

Introducing a new global Touring Car racing championship – the TC3™ International Series – which has been announced for 2015. The exciting new series aims to restore the ‘Touring Car Pyramid’ concept of cars that can compete at national, regional and international level and will appear in several Formula One™ events.
Not only will the cars look impressive but they will be capable of delivering a strong performance, while development and running costs will be kept under control to make the series affordable for private teams.

The technical principles follow the GT3 philosophy. Performance of the different cars will be regulated through a Performance balance system.
Major car makers have in their range models that may be eligible for competing in this series that is deliberately aimed at creating a strong customer market for the cars while developing a worldwide racing product at the pinnacle of Touring Car racing.

In all, there will be in excess of ten race meetings over four continents. Some of these will be run within F1© events, ensuring a massive global audience and strong media coverage will be exposed to the series in its very first season.
A sister TC3™ Asia Series will be organised as well, that will be sharing some of the events with the International Series.

Stay tuned to hear further details about the TC3™ International Series and its 2015 calendar that will be announced shortly.
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 20:24 (Ref:3430044)   #2
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Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 20:49 (Ref:3430050)   #3
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Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?
It's about time something is done. Touring car racing on the continent is dying on the vine...

Also, the idea of applying the GT3 philosophy to touring cars should have been used a long time ago.
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 21:24 (Ref:3430059)   #4
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My default position is to be sceptical of anything like this but I think that's well justified in this case.

The sum total of what anyone knows about this is written in the three paragraphs of the press release quoted in the opening post. Who is behind it? What are the technical regs? Website gives zero details. This is just an announcement to say thee will be another announcement in a couple of months.

Forgive me if I don't get too enthusiastic just yet.
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 21:47 (Ref:3430063)   #5
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What are the technical regs?
If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.

Possible candidates could be:

Seat Leon Supercopa (new)
Opel Astra OPC Race Cup
Peugeot 208 GTi (VLN)
CLA AMG Racing Series (Brazilian 1 make series)
BMW 235i Racing (VLN)
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 22:47 (Ref:3430074)   #6
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Another global series to compete with WTCC.
Madness.
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Old 3 Jul 2014, 22:49 (Ref:3430076)   #7
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Right, so is this the FIA attempting to regulate every form of professional motorsports?
Its nothing to do with FIA. It's the total opposite. It's for another world series to go against WTCC!
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 07:24 (Ref:3430176)   #8
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If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.
Even with BoP you still need some sort of framework or target performance to work from. Take the following 3 examples:
750MC Hot Hatch - Saxos, Fiestas and the like
UK VW Cup - Polos, Golfs and Sciroccos
EuroV8/Superstars - Merc C-class, BMW 5-series, Audi RS5, etc

Three very different series for very different types of car but with one thing in common, all use some form of adjustments to balance the relative performance of the grid. They don't all use the term 'BoP' but essentially that's what it is. that works fine within each series but no amount of BoP is ever going to balance a 1.6 Fiesta with a 5-litre AMG Mercedes.

I hope this doesn't turn into another thread full of start endless speculating on what would be the ideal global formula, consider this. If this truly is a ‘Touring Car Pyramid’ with TC1 > TC2 > TC3, then this new formula will sit below the current TC2/S2000 in terms of performance, in which case isn't that already Super1600.
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 08:57 (Ref:3430215)   #9
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It's about time something is done. Touring car racing on the continent is dying on the vine...
I agree with your statement, but not necessarily with the creation of a "TC3" class. Hell, they haven't even gotten TC1 stabilized, which could need one or two more manufacturers. Then there's TC2, which is basically S2000...and then you want to create a class below S2000? Wouldn't it be better to let TC2 be a class with downgraded TC1 cars (Production-based engines instead of 1.6l racing engines; less bodywork modifications etc.) and to turn S2000 into TC3?

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Also, the idea of applying the GT3 philosophy to touring cars should have been used a long time ago.
Absolutely. GT3 is pretty much the spiritual successor to Group A touring cars anyway, so I never figured out why the same approach hasn't been used for touring cars. Then again, GT3 was a privateer's playground back then, while touring cars were run by manufacturers and we all know that manufacturers don't like any BoP applied to their cars (Like Audi in the 1992 DTM season...).
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 09:16 (Ref:3430219)   #10
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Originally Posted by Speed-King View Post
If they go by the GT3 philosophy there'll be none...

Ideally they'd just take a bunch of existing cars and throw them together under a BoP-formula.

Possible candidates could be:

Seat Leon Supercopa (new)
Opel Astra OPC Race Cup
Peugeot 208 GTi (VLN)
CLA AMG Racing Series (Brazilian 1 make series)
BMW 235i Racing (VLN)
I would actually applaud this format, using those single make cars and bopping them would make for a great grid (though the 208 would be the odd one out I guess).
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 12:01 (Ref:3430263)   #11
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Errrmm... Isn't that supposed to be a WTCC feeder series (at least one of them) - Ribeiro spoke of a feeder series earlier and the were rumors that 3 classes will be made - WTC with TC1, TC2, and something like TC3..In any case from my point of view being a touringcar ladder series and supporting...Formula 1..is silly. On the other hand, looks like Lotti is trying to build new WTCC from scratch
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 12:18 (Ref:3430272)   #12
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Yet another touring car series? Touring cars (in a global sense) needs 1 or 2 sets of rules, not 10.
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 12:22 (Ref:3430274)   #13
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Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole View Post
The technical principles follow the GT3 philosophy. Performance of the different cars will be regulated through a Performance balance system.
Well it didn't take long for me to make not to care at all.

Not that the success ballast + power-etc flickering of WTCC or near-spec 'parity' formula of V8 Supercars is close to my heart either but (presumably) non-regs all-BoP class is infinitely lamer, especially if it really takes the route of GT3 and slowly turns into the powerhouse of all touring car racing

Last edited by Chiana; 4 Jul 2014 at 12:33.
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 12:38 (Ref:3430282)   #14
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BTW, I believe the concept of returning the concept of "restoring the 'touring car pyramid' concept of cars that can compete at national, regional and international level."" is dead.. Most touring car series opted for their own rules which suit their particular country. The are way too big differences between the countries and it's simply impossible to make one set of rules which will satisfy everyone..WTCC opted for what was better for them - a world championship should have unique championship rules if it wants to be perceived as a world championship, BTCC opted for a cheap ruleset, affordable for privateers, STCC opted for spectacular looking cars and so on.. I don't believe this idea is realistic

As for performance balancing - did we forget what seriously hit WTCC? It will hit this series as well (if it means the system of waivers used in pre-2014 WTCC)
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Old 4 Jul 2014, 14:15 (Ref:3430309)   #15
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STCC opted for spectacular looking cars and so on.
It didn't really work out for them though... the only healthy touring car series in Europe right now are BTCC and to a slightly lesser extent WTCC (still Euro-based) and ETCC.

Touring car racing on a national somewhat professional level on the continent is dead.

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As for performance balancing - did we forget what seriously hit WTCC?
Well, there is an example of a very well run BoP-based touring car series: http://www.imsa.com/series/sportscar-challenge

So I guess it is possible that this works out fine. Especially since many smaller European countries are finding that they can't support a full-blown GT3 series either and that spec series make for a poor top of the national pyramid.

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Even with BoP you still need some sort of framework or target performance to work from. Take the following 3 examples:
750MC Hot Hatch - Saxos, Fiestas and the like
UK VW Cup - Polos, Golfs and Sciroccos
EuroV8/Superstars - Merc C-class, BMW 5-series, Audi RS5, etc
I'm pretty sure they'd go for turbo-charged engines, somewhere around 2 liters, but with the possibility to deviate from that by 400-500cc. Anything smaller doesn't make for particularily imposing cars, anything bigger and you really start to cut down on the number of potential marques and come into conflicts with the various GT3 series.
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