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Old 4 Jan 2018, 18:12 (Ref:3790690)   #166
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I think we all agree that the priority and defining aspect to whether it is a success is getting the new 2018 engine right. If they have a problem with that then it will be bad.
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Old 4 Jan 2018, 18:37 (Ref:3790694)   #167
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Obviously the new engine is the priority, but I guess my point is - what's the point of a Plan B, when Plan B is already as bad as a failed Plan A?

It's like saying that Plan A is to win the game. If Plan A fails, then Plan B is to lose the game. Utilising the Plan B, you're no further forward.
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Old 4 Jan 2018, 19:06 (Ref:3790698)   #168
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Obviously the new engine is the priority, but I guess my point is - what's the point of a Plan B, when Plan B is already as bad as a failed Plan A?

It's like saying that Plan A is to win the game. If Plan A fails, then Plan B is to lose the game. Utilising the Plan B, you're no further forward.
I would say that you suggest a non-existent scenario. It wasn't until late in 2017 that the 2017 engine was producing power at the level of the 2016 engine at the end of 2016. So if they find themselves in a scenario in which 2018 engine is significantly deficient "at the start of the season" (when compared to how things were at the end of 2017), then maybe it does make sense to start 2018 with the 2017 engine.

Also the start of 2018 and 2017 are two radically different scenarios. 2017 was a totally new design. 2018 will be an evolution (less likely to have negative surprises). So short of unexpected reliability issues (or more likely, unfinished reliability testing), we will probably see the 2018 engine at pre-season testing. Of course, there is still room for a massive and unexpected issue to arise. Never say never at this point with Honda! I am a fan, but I am also realistic.

Anyhow... I feel like I am belaboring my points. I think I am generally saying the same thing over and over again. So I am likely to cool down my posting on this until we have something "new" to talk about. I think at this point it is unlikely to sway the opinions of people. And in the end it really doesn't matter. It is just my opinion which is based upon speculation and my own reading. We will just have to wait and see what happens in pre-season testing when we have cars on track.

And... its going to be a long wait until pre-season testing! With an absence of news all we can do is speculate! I think pre-season testing is...

2/26 - 3/1
3/6 - 3/9

There is always a chance for more news to leak out between now and then, but for the most part, I expect it to be relatively quiet until right before the testing starts. I would love to hear some news leak out from the Torro Rosso side of the house.

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Old 4 Jan 2018, 19:15 (Ref:3790703)   #169
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It'll be interesting to see how much Honda branding is on the car too (and how prominent). Does anyone know what the financials are of this deal? Honda were paying McLaren vast sums (and Alonso) - so are they paying Torro Rosso the same amount?
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Old 4 Jan 2018, 19:37 (Ref:3790706)   #170
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Can someone PLEASE correct the spelling?
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Old 4 Jan 2018, 19:48 (Ref:3790709)   #171
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Can someone PLEASE correct the spelling?
Hondda? Honnda?
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Old 4 Jan 2018, 21:33 (Ref:3790731)   #172
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It'll be interesting to see how much Honda branding is on the car too (and how prominent). Does anyone know what the financials are of this deal? Honda were paying McLaren vast sums (and Alonso) - so are they paying Torro Rosso the same amount?
I think much of that McLaren money was for Alonso. Given he is not part of the deal, I assume Toro Rosso is getting much much less?

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Can someone PLEASE correct the spelling?
Ha, I didn't notice anything. I assume it is fixed now? What was it?

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Old 4 Jan 2018, 22:35 (Ref:3790742)   #173
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It was Torro Rosso - HONDA now corrected to Toro Rosso - HONDA.

The temptation to change it to something with a different spelling mistake was almost to much, but I decided to be good (for a change).
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Old 5 Jan 2018, 16:13 (Ref:3790877)   #174
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bit of a random question....if they do use 2017 engines where would those 2017 PUs be coming from?

given how many units Mclaren went through plus the late season timing of their breakup, i cant imagine there are a lot of fresh/unused PU left over...unless they over produced them or would they be using refurbished/rebuilt units if the 2017 PU gets called back into service.

also a thought about the 3 engine limit for 2018...no doubt there will be a lot of races where penalties are incurred so this may be a moot point but given the 3 engine allotment , Honda wont have many opportunities to introduce new upgrades with out receiving even more penalties.

how this impacts their development cycle for 2018 will be interesting to say the least.
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 00:16 (Ref:3791108)   #175
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the guys at str (minardi) have a proven track record of really good chasis and great professionalism in working with tight budgets. honda, we all know the track record they have, and a friendlier, more free, less dicatorship-like relationship compared to the one they had with mclaren, could result in some indeed great steps in the right direcion.

the problem are ther drivers. gasly is not half bad, but wont be enough to carry the team, and hartley, im not sure what he is doing in f1. all in all it feels like a very promising package, of which the true potential could sadly be never seen.
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 14:24 (Ref:3791196)   #176
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the guys at str (minardi) have a proven track record of really good chasis and great professionalism in working with tight budgets. honda, we all know the track record they have, and a friendlier, more free, less dicatorship-like relationship compared to the one they had with mclaren, could result in some indeed great steps in the right direcion.

the problem are ther drivers. gasly is not half bad, but wont be enough to carry the team, and hartley, im not sure what he is doing in f1. all in all it feels like a very promising package, of which the true potential could sadly be never seen.
Driver lineup is more of a concern than the actual engine. What's going on for them is that other two teams will suck in the driver department as well, both Sauber and Williams. There is a good chance TR will not finish dead last this year but forget about sticking it to McLaren. That's coming next year in Red Bull.
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Old 7 Jan 2018, 15:21 (Ref:3791201)   #177
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Driver lineup is more of a concern than the actual engine. What's going on for them is that other two teams will suck in the driver department as well, both Sauber and Williams. There is a good chance TR will not finish dead last this year but forget about sticking it to McLaren. That's coming next year in Red Bull.
i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually
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Old 8 Jan 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3791431)   #178
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i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually
The only reason Stroll did so well on ocassion last season was when the car suited the circuit! Nice lad but whoever is in the other car will hammer him.

Gasly and Hartley are right for STR. Both need to perform and are hungry. No experienced driver would go there to put up with Honda uncertainty.
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 00:46 (Ref:3791464)   #179
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i know people have mixed feelings about stroll,but i feel he would run a lap around the str guys any day of the week. sauber i agree have a pretty str-esque lineup, except that ericcson has a LOT of milage under his belt. if str and sauber can do a close battle for 9th place i would sign up for that actually
Stroll and Hartley were team mates at the 2016 Daytona 24 hours.
How did their times compare against one another?
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Old 9 Jan 2018, 08:27 (Ref:3791504)   #180
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STR with a Renault PU has been a solid midfield team. Next year McLaren is likely to jump into the top 10, and Renault (the team) will no doubt continue their progress. So the top 10 could be filled with Merc, Ferrari, RB, McLaren and Renault. Not much room for smaller privateers to score points. On top of that, STR's direct competitors will all be powered by 2018 Mercedes or Ferrari PUs. Honda need to make big improvements to get close enough. Add a bit underwhelming driver lineup to the mix, and it could be their worst season for years.
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