2021 Rallying

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Well - I think that went about as well as he could have hoped for - really impressive drive I thought.

Yeah very solid performance. Definitely got some familiar traits to his dad, namely the mouth wide open and the proper full send he had going on the Power Stage until catching the bank

[crossfades]

On the one hand the Toyotas had worse road positions to begin with, thinking of Evans and especially Ogier. On the other hand, it's literally their home event and the Toyotas have more or less been developed in Finnish conditions, aka fast roads. They even have one Yaris which has only done two events, both in Arctic. https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo...-wrc/?car=5189
People who were quick to hail Latvala in Monte should have something to think about.

When it comes to Solberg, I'm more impressed by his enthusiasm and positive attitude rather than his talents. He's been nurtured to be a WRC driver, like Rovanperä, and probably got more experience in a car than people actually know of and realize. But his way of just jumping into the i20 speaks volumes I think. So many with less experience complain about struggling, set ups, "trying to find a rythm" etc., whereas Solberg is just enjoying it and maximizing his opportunity.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crossfades

... Solberg is just enjoying it and maximizing his opportunity.

This stands out with a few drivers - Breen is another who really enjoys himself, some of his interviews at the end of stages are just joyful to watch as he's clearly absolutely buzzing and is very much aware of how lucky he is to have the chance to drive these cars.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by crossfades

When it comes to Solberg, I'm more impressed by his enthusiasm and positive attitude rather than his talents. He's been nurtured to be a WRC driver, like Rovanperä, and probably got more experience in a car than people actually know of and realize. But his way of just jumping into the i20 speaks volumes I think. So many with less experience complain about struggling, set ups, "trying to find a rythm" etc., whereas Solberg is just enjoying it and maximizing his opportunity.

Yeah, he grasped the chance with both hands. I love the enthusiasm of him and Craig Breen, especially how Breen just cannot contain how much he loves driving a World Rally Car. I know a big chunk of it is the car, but I can't help but compare Solberg to the likes of Sunninen or Greensmith.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

I know a big chunk of it is the car, but I can't help but compare Solberg to the likes of Sunninen or Greensmith.

This is the problem with the Fiesta at the moment - we don't know how good it actually is as the drivers clearly aren't up to the standards of the other teams. It's a real shame that Lappi couldn't get one of the seats for this season - I think he'd have given us a better indication of the pace of the Fiesta relative to the Hyundai and Toyota.

[FIRE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=808eIa84ROs

Rally version of Audi A1 Quatro by EKS/JC.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Not sure where is the best place for this, but Daniel Elena has issued a pretty firm f*** you to Prodrive after they pushed Loeb to use a different co-driver.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-...ears-together/

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

Not sure where is the best place for this, but Daniel Elena has issued a pretty firm f*** you to Prodrive after they pushed Loeb to use a different co-driver.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-...ears-together/

Wow - that's not a happy man! Does he have a point about Prodrive though? Away from their Aston Martin program what have they won since 2003? The last WRC Impreza was a dud, the WRC MINI never really amounted to anything, the WRX Meganes didn't live up to the hype and the Dakar cars seemed too fragile.

I'd have thought Seb would have stood by Daniel though - you'd have to assume that if Seb had said "either it's Daniel or I don't drive" then Prodrive would have had to suck it up.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

I dunno, WRC Mini showed genuine pace before the manufacturer pulled the plug...but kinda got the feeling they pulled the plug as a result of Prodrive.

The Meganes also showed pace in 2019 when in the hands of Doran (who isn't actually that quick anyway). Last season they had shocking reliability, particularly with driveshafts, but as that wasn't an issue in 2019 I'm not sure if it was a Prodrive or GCK thing.

He's still right though, their rallying type programmes have been less than ideal and always a partnership ended swiftly, so you have to wonder why.

I do agree that it seems strange that Loeb didn't give the ultimatum, he's bringing a lot to the party with his name so you'd have through he'd be able to do that...unless of course he didn't want to risk it

[Cinghio44]

I have followed very much the Dakar in these last years, and yes, in the 2021 edition he made some mistakes in a very difficult navigation for this specific editions. Anyway, mistakes came also from other more expert navigators like the one of Carlos Sainz. You win or you lose, it's a team work.

I think Daniel has showed some wrong attitude to the team and basically I think they didn't want him around anymore. Such a shame because I really wanted to see them winning the Dakar. A strong decision also from Loeb, he too has to raise the level if he really want to win.

As for the car, the result speak for itself: best debutant car in the Dakar. And it was delayed by the Covid, with no big testing, no races before the Dakar. And of course there is always something you need to develop or modify after the first Dakar.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

I dunno, WRC Mini showed genuine pace before the manufacturer pulled the plug...but kinda got the feeling they pulled the plug as a result of Prodrive.

The MINI was an odd one - it never really seemed to get off the ground, it just seemed like a half arsed effort from the start.

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

The Meganes also showed pace in 2019 when in the hands of Doran (who isn't actually that quick anyway). Last season they had shocking reliability, particularly with driveshafts, but as that wasn't an issue in 2019 I'm not sure if it was a Prodrive or GCK thing.

They showed flashes of speed but I have to say I expected more from them - the driveshaft problems may have been GCK related but again you have to wonder why they were so quick to pull the Meganes in house and away from Prodrive?

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

I do agree that it seems strange that Loeb didn't give the ultimatum, he's bringing a lot to the party with his name so you'd have through he'd be able to do that...unless of course he didn't want to risk it

I think Prodrive had more to lose than Loeb in this instance - if Loeb had walked away then that would've looked really bad for Prodrive.

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

I have followed very much the Dakar in these last years, and yes, in the 2021 edition he made some mistakes in a very difficult navigation for this specific editions. Anyway, mistakes came also from other more expert navigators like the one of Carlos Sainz. You win or you lose, it's a team work.

This year was the first using the electronic roadbooks wasn't it? I think a lot of people made mistakes as they adjusted to the new system so it wasn't specific to Elena.

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

I think Daniel has showed some wrong attitude to the team and basically I think they didn't want him around anymore. Such a shame because I really wanted to see them winning the Dakar.

That's possible - we only have Elena's perspective on this.

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

As for the car, the result speak for itself: best debutant car in the Dakar. And it was delayed by the Covid, with no big testing, no races before the Dakar. And of course there is always something you need to develop or modify after the first Dakar.

They did manage some testing but I suspect that it was nowhere near as much as they'd originally planned (and given when they tested I don't think they'd have had a huge amount of time to make any serious changes). It'll be interesting to see how those cars go in the future - I assume they'll be racking up serious mileage between now and the next Dakar.

[NaBUru38]

Wow! Elena did not spare words.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The MINI was an odd one - it never really seemed to get off the ground, it just seemed like a half arsed effort from the start.







They showed flashes of speed but I have to say I expected more from them - the driveshaft problems may have been GCK related but again you have to wonder why they were so quick to pull the Meganes in house and away from Prodrive?







I think Prodrive had more to lose than Loeb in this instance - if Loeb had walked away then that would've looked really bad for Prodrive.







This year was the first using the electronic roadbooks wasn't it? I think a lot of people made mistakes as they adjusted to the new system so it wasn't specific to Elena.







That's possible - we only have Elena's perspective on this.







They did manage some testing but I suspect that it was nowhere near as much as they'd originally planned (and given when they tested I don't think they'd have had a huge amount of time to make any serious changes). It'll be interesting to see how those cars go in the future - I assume they'll be racking up serious mileage between now and the next Dakar.

Yes this year was the first with the new Digital roadbook. It was absolutely hell! They make It very hard for the navigators and It needs maximum concentration with fast reacting by them. They wanted a Dakar more tricky with navigations and they clearly succeded in it.

In the french video of Elena, he clearly disapproved the car and try to discuss with engineer on how to modify specific things. But Prodrive had different ideas...

Probably Prodrive wanted Elena off, Loeb too had the idea to take a more expert codriver for that seat. And if Loeb decided to "sacrifice" his friend It means this project is serious.

Time will tell if Elena criticism were right



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[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude

I dunno, WRC Mini showed genuine pace before the manufacturer pulled the plug...but kinda got the feeling they pulled the plug as a result of Prodrive.

It was a different way of going about a WRC programme. They had a WRCar design, even before a manufacturer showed any interest.

When it was unveiled it turned out to be Mini - and all the history that brought. From what I remember, BMW-Mini funded the engine and development, but after that Prodrive would need to find most of the budget.
I remember it even featured on BBC News programmes - which was surely an opportunity to bring in sponsorship. Sadly, no sponsorship materialised - an indictment of the poor level of WRC promotion.
However, the car showed decent pace early on, and had a PowerStage win in Catalunya, then a 4th place in GB - so all was set well for 2012.
And then the bombshell just before Christmas - when Meeke announced he'd lost the drive as he had no money to bring.

And from then on it all petered out....in fact Motorsport Italia then ran the programme.

[Cinghio44]

I agree the Mini project was too short to be judged. To race like a privateer in WRC is just impossible. The only one who succeded was M-Sport in recent years with Ogier... but they work really hard to sell the Fiesta R5 and all the other minor Fiesta Rally4 and Rally5 (former R2 and R1) version wich surely brings up money to be used in the main WRC programme. Prodrive at the time wasn't structured like M-Sport and there were no categories like R5 where a team could sell the cars they produce

[S griffin]

The Mini project seemed like a job that was half done and never finished. Sordo coming within a whisker of winning Rally Spain in the Mini’s first season showed what could have been

[hoffman66]

I never really understood it, they spent all that money both Prodrive and BMW developing and testing it, building several cars, even doing a sort of WRC2 version too that sold pretty well and then it was just canned.

It seems it was all about funding as BMW were happy to fund the Portugese team as most of the money was put in by their sponsors not BMW, Meeke and Sordo were probably well salaried and there was very little sponsorship, but then there rarely is for factory teams, that is why they do it FFS.

I think BMW wanted to be the beneficiary of Prodrive's work and Prodrive said eff off, you want it, you fund it, good riddance, never liked the thing anyway, looked stupid, sounded horrible ALS was ridiculous

[Alex Langheck]

BMW have never really 'got' rallying.....so it was no surprise when it got pulled.
2012 was their return to the DTM, so all budget would have gone towards that. I remember an article, completely lambasting them preferring a domestic series over global one.

[Cinghio44]

They supported also X-Raid for the Mini Dakar programme with the Mini ALL4 car from 2011. Four Dakar victories

[crossfades]

Something must've happened, doubt BMW pulled the plug on minor things. I honestly think it was down to Prodrive and I wouldn't be surprised if it was about money.

I got a story but it lacks details. There was one time when Prodrive begged Subaru for money in order to develop a new engine, as the current one wasn't good enough according to Prodrive. But that one had already been developed within their received budget. Subaru was reluctant to give them more, but eventually gave in. So either the money was short from the start or the money didn't go where it was supposed to.

There are a few stories like this I've heard of where hired, independent parties put the money into their own pocket rather than into the project they're supposed to run. Bahrain is literally sponsoring this effort and I doubt it's with small amounts.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Cinghio44

They supported also X-Raid for the Mini Dakar programme with the Mini ALL4 car from 2011. Four Dakar victories

X-Raid is owned by Sven Quandt. The Quandt family is a large BMW shareholder. I don't think the rally raid effort was an official BMW Motorsport project.

[Cinghio44]

Originally Posted by FIRE

X-Raid is owned by Sven Quandt. The Quandt family is a large BMW shareholder. I don't think the rally raid effort was an official BMW Motorsport project.

Yes infact I wrote "supported"

BMW developed the diesel twinturbo engine for that car

[BertMk2]

Not 2021 but WRC news - Hyundai, Toyota and M-Sport have committed fro the 2022 season and the new hybrid tech. Good news as the loss of any of those would likely have killed the new generation of WR cars before they'd even turned a wheel.

[S griffin]

Indeed. With Citroen pulling out a few years ago, we can't afford to lose anymore manufacturer backed entries.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Not 2021 but WRC news - Hyundai, Toyota and M-Sport have committed fro the 2022 season and the new hybrid tech. Good news as the loss of any of those would likely have killed the new generation of WRCars before they'd even turned a wheel.

It's just about good news. The sport had managed to keep the current manufacturers.
So, where are the rest? The ACO have played a blinder for the WEC, and have a strong list of manufacturers. Why couldn't the WRC Promoter do the same?

I thought there was a little too much back slapping yesterday at a job done well......