from The Courier Mail - Page 3

vortexo · 10 Sep 2003, 06:42 (Ref:713799)

Todays column by Jnr has Besnard out of hospital last Friday and fit for Sandown this week-end. He is also reporting that Luffie did ok in the test last week and they are a perfect fit for driver changes. Go Jnr!!!!

**GTRMagic** · 10 Sep 2003, 06:49 (Ref:713805)

Perfect fit? Is that a good thing???

RaceTime · 10 Sep 2003, 07:19 (Ref:713819)

Jnr's lost a LOT of weight then

Crash Test · 10 Sep 2003, 07:27 (Ref:713823)

Or Luffy's hit the cake stand

Steve aint a little fella, and he never will be, but I don't think it has anything to do with how well he drives. I think they would both be about the same height, so there wouldn't have to be much buggerising around with the wheels and steering etc.

spook · 10 Sep 2003, 07:45 (Ref:713835)

But the Govt money will most likely be spent at Mt Panorama, because the promoters of Australian Motor Sport (AVESCO) are the only sqeeky wheel that the pollies can hear.

I will bet you that CAMS will never be heard asking the governments of Australia at any level to spend money at any venue that AVESCO doesn't give the nod to.

RaceTime · 10 Sep 2003, 09:31 (Ref:713923)

Luffy just has to remember to loosen the seat belts for Jnr - otherwise he is going to have a very squeeky voice after the race!

PeterJ · 10 Sep 2003, 23:43 (Ref:714579)

This discussion on even splitting of govt funds to all the race tracks rather than the top ones seems to me to be one part of a bigger problem of Govt money Avesco gets and splits around the teams. As the governments are pouring money into AVESCO is there any accountability or direction on how the money is disbursed? Can anyone shed light on the constraints (if any) that comes with the Govt money to Avesco? I mean if money should be spread to the 'other' tracks fairly so should the 'other' teams (read level 2 teams here) get a fair share. Is it a matter of no matter how much extra cash comes into TEGA from the Govt only the level 1 teams get to share a bigger and bigger level 1 cake will the Level 2’s miss out? Surely CAMS has an interest in making sure there is a fair distribution to all levels of Motorsport. I have read in another thread that this issue is hotting up with some of these TEGA competitors not being too happy with the distribution of funds and one team is taking legal action to address this.

Onlooker · 11 Sep 2003, 00:04 (Ref:714585)

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterJ
Surely CAMS has an interest in making sure there is a fair distribution to all levels of Motorsport.

Bit like taxing high income earners to the hilt so that uneducated teenage breeding machines can flourish in the burbs sint it.Everyone is all for the user pays system untill they find out how much they have to pay.
When AVESCO took over the series it was a pretty unorganised bunch of guys who could only field a full grid twice a year,they were mocked by the others and more than one promoter of rival series's were lauding that they would sink into a large hole,now they have turned it around and everyone wants to knock them.They may not be the fairest of competitors but everyone stood around like vulchers on a pole when they promoted there own 1000,and laughed at the situation of the teams not being able to access the very garages they had constructed on CAMS land for the media day.
Always rememer those toes you step on on the way up as they are likely to be conected to the foot kicking your but on the way down.PROCAR/ASTEAM etc have had the oppurtunity to make a go of there own oppurtunitys and thus far have failed to maximise the chances.Some tracks may struggle with out the big fat cash cow that is a V8 round but if you simply charge what is the true cost of operating the circiut to the users then surely the owners will survive and the competitors will be glad of the privelidge of participateing in a democratic/user pays system.By reducing the endless range of classes for every tom dick and harry then the chosen classes have a chance of flourishing,everyone wants to be the big fish in a little pond.

PeterJ · 12 Sep 2003, 00:14 (Ref:715756)

Onlooker - please don't assume I want to abolish Avesco nor do I wish to ignore the great part that the Avesco structure has been in turning around V8s in the past. I suppose I just fear the $ taking over the focus and decision making (ie: like dropping the PI track from the series as a classic recent example). I am not talking revolution just a continuation of the evolution of v8.

I know it might be a clique in Australia but I unashamedly like to see some of the underdogs get a podium once in a while. I know the realities are that you need a bit of money to achieve this. The odd underdog win also makes it easier for them to get sponsorship dollars but it a dog chasing its tail type situation as without the dollars you don't get the good finishing positions in the first place – around and around it goes.

That's why I think the key is the avesco pie split - a split that I think needs to be wider than the 13 top teams. It gives the boost that some of the back marking teams need to be on the podium once in a while in turn gives them a break with talking to potential sponsors. I don't know what the number of Level 1 teams should be today, maybe it should 15 or 16 although I do know it should be more than it was yesterday and in two years time it should be a few more again, maybe 18 teams. I do however want to see the money going into the teams and not into someone’s pocket beyond reasonable compensation. I just worry a bit that people like TC might see too many $$$ in their eyes giving them tunnel vision – leaving us fans on the blind sides.

RaceTime · 12 Sep 2003, 00:18 (Ref:715759)

Which is why I can't understand AVESCO hasn't implemented an F1 type system - F1 distribute their money based on points - to be eligible for a slice of the pie, you have to at least get some points.

Obviously this is easier with such a generous V8 points system (sorry I really meant to say ridiculous...) but this would at least help back markers AND reward success (even if it just finishing a race)

DAVID PATERSON · 12 Sep 2003, 03:20 (Ref:715845)

RaceTime, It's sad that David Kidd decided to give up on a State meeting at Bathurst. $100K divided by 8, divided by 50 is just $250 per competitor. Who wouldn't pay that to race on the mountain? Heck, I'm paying $720 to race there in October.

RaceTime · 12 Sep 2003, 03:35 (Ref:715850)

Yes - but at the $100,000 he still hadn't got ambo's, factored officials into the equation - all the normal stuff a race meeting needs. This $100k was just the price of various things trackside...

And then there was insurance (no AAA then

) and CAMS permit

GTV27 · 12 Sep 2003, 03:47 (Ref:715862)

PeterJ - What Govt money goes to AVESCO?

DAVID PATERSON · 12 Sep 2003, 03:52 (Ref:715865)

The HSRCA also tried to do a similar thing with Historic racing and faced the same obstacles.

Financially it was borderline, then CAMS told them it would only allow Groups N & S to race at Bathurst. Without all of the other Historic classes, it had no chance of going ahead.

Onlooker · 12 Sep 2003, 04:25 (Ref:715871)

Quote:

Originally posted by PeterJ
Onlooker - please don't assume I want to abolish Avesco nor do I wish to ignore the great part that the Avesco structure has been in turning around V8s in the past. I suppose I just fear the $ taking over the focus and decision making (ie: like dropping the PI track from the series as a classic recent example). I am not talking revolution just a continuation of the evolution of v8.

I know it might be a clique in Australia but I unashamedly like to see some of the underdogs get a podium once in a while. I know the realities are that you need a bit of money to achieve this. The odd underdog win also makes it easier for them to get sponsorship dollars but it a dog chasing its tail type situation as without the dollars you don't get the good finishing positions in the first place – around and around it goes.

That's why I think the key is the avesco pie split - a split that I think needs to be wider than the 13 top teams. It gives the boost that some of the back marking teams need to be on the podium once in a while in turn gives them a break with talking to potential sponsors. I don't know what the number of Level 1 teams should be today, maybe it should 15 or 16 although I do know it should be more than it was yesterday and in two years time it should be a few more again, maybe 18 teams. I do however want to see the money going into the teams and not into someone’s pocket beyond reasonable compensation. I just worry a bit that people like TC might see too many $$$ in their eyes giving them tunnel vision – leaving us fans on the blind sides.

No worries,by your original post I thought you were implying that the monies made by AVESCO should be distributed to the other classes of m/sport.That to me is wrong,as TC said the other day he unashamably dose very little for other classes as that is CAMS job.Yes they can rally for funding for tracks like Bathurst and as a trade off all classes that compete will benifit but he is in charge of V8 and V8's only.If per say AVESCO get cash to upgrade Bathurst then all competitors will benifit.It is up to cometitors to make informed decisions as to what class will reap the greatest reward to them.ie Get a Commodore Cup car ,be at the Konica rounds etc and thus attract better sponsers,don't race some odd ball class that is support to the Super Tourers and then winge that AVESCO is robbing the sport.

RaceTime · 12 Sep 2003, 04:48 (Ref:715879)

Quote:

Originally posted by Onlooker
Yes they can rally for funding for tracks like Bathurst and as a trade off all classes that compete will benifit but he is in charge of V8 and V8's only.If per say AVESCO get cash to upgrade Bathurst then all competitors will benifit.It is up to cometitors to make informed decisions as to what class will reap the greatest reward to them.ie Get a Commodore Cup car ,be at the Konica rounds etc and thus attract better sponsers,don't race some odd ball class that is support to the Super Tourers and then winge that AVESCO is robbing the sport.

You mean by upgrading Bathurst - the categories racing there will benefit?

Categories like V8's, Procar, Formula Ford, Historic Touring (already enjoying V8 protection), HQ's and....well that's it, isn't it?

Again - the elite categories (OK I accept HQ's and posibly Historic Touring aren't elite - but the remainder are) benefit whilst the majority of Australian motor racing - F/Vee, Improved, Production Sports, Historic etc etc miss out on the benefits.

Yep - I can agree this is very equitable for all concerned.

Not!

Onlooker · 12 Sep 2003, 04:57 (Ref:715880)

So on that logic you would have to agree that the Super Tourers should also be the recipient of funding to assist them,and while your at it maybe the guys that want to race NASCARS on the road,hey throw future toureres in as well(there's a class that could have done OK if it was fostered by PROCAR correctly).
Isn't it up to the governing bodies of these classes to ensure that the cars they are racing are viable and what the public want to see,If people wish to race cars that nobody want to watch then they can pay for it.What happened to formula Vee,they were a feeder class that had TV etc and now zip,lack of promotion,lack of competitors????I think they are great to but the general public dosn't.
You just can't hold ont that Betta vidio unit for ever you know,supply and demand.PROCAR should be doing more to get the classes that are alledgedly so popular but can't pull a crowd on there own and lift them,they are all for keeping there traps shut and hoping someone else will rattle the governments cage

RaceTime · 12 Sep 2003, 05:10 (Ref:715884)

Don't try and put words into what I say - I never said, and never have, envisaged government funding for ANY category. However, I will fight tooth and nail to prevent government funding for tracks like Bathurst which are only used for the elite and the already funded major categories.

And not sure where you are looking, but 31 Formula Vees at last weekends Phillip Island State Race Meeting is hardly 'lack of competitors'. Similar fields for these categories race in each state.

What do expect to happen if these 'race cars that nobody goes to watch' stop completely? Do you imagine that the current crop of V8 drivers simply rocked up and managed to get V8 drives?

Procar manages to get crowds that are only surpassed by the main V8 category - they managed to pull better crowds than the Konicas at all circuits they run at.

i suggest you get out to motor sport other than V8's a little and see what is really happening out there.

Valve Bounce · 12 Sep 2003, 05:18 (Ref:715886)

There is also another article about Michael Voss being fit to play tonight

Gudgeon · 12 Sep 2003, 11:12 (Ref:716181)

peter J has a n axe to grind why is he doing this is it to rgain the P.I round or is he a greenie in disguise the matters he raises are almost I said almost worthy of a new thread

Mattracer · 12 Sep 2003, 11:21 (Ref:716193)

At the risk of being too simplistic, all that hard-core fans can do is keep pressure on the powers that be to maintain a round of both series in their home state, and the teams to ensure that they are competing in a healthy series that benefits the fans, the teams and their sponsors.

jetsetter · 12 Sep 2003, 11:34 (Ref:716207)

Unfortunately AVESCO & TC in particular have a bad habit of never listening to the fans, all they're interested in is which circuits will pay the right price to make it worth their time to run their series.

Valve Bounce · 13 Sep 2003, 01:10 (Ref:717052)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mattracer
At the risk of being too simplistic, all that hard-core fans can do is keep pressure on the powers that be to maintain a round of both series in their home state, and the teams to ensure that they are competing in a healthy series that benefits the fans, the teams and their sponsors.

Well, the Crows didn't do that well last night, and the Power(s) are going to get thumped tonight, fans or no fans.

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