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Old 4 May 2021, 11:12 (Ref:4049580)   #61
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If it was Mercedes being penalised, I expect he'd be rather quieter about it...
No doubt at all!
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Old 4 May 2021, 11:17 (Ref:4049583)   #62
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It is, however, the (in)consistency which matters. As mentioned above, Donington, Oulton Park and Brands Hatch (definitely) plus Snetterton (possibly?) have sensors with cameras pointing at them at the major track limits zones. In Donington's case - exit of Redgate, exit of the Old Hairpin, exit of Mcleans and I think at the exit of the final corner, Robert's. There is no disputing the photos - they're available to the clerk within a few seconds of being taken.

If that can be applied at a historic meeting or in a novice's race at a club meeting, plus in the BTCC, I can't see it being too hard to adopt internationally.

Saying that... HM's words have been very carefully chosen. He's making it look like the FIA have deliberately taken positions/points/wins and therefore money away from his team by the application of a rule with which he (at this time) disagrees. If it was Mercedes being penalised, I expect he'd be rather quieter about it...
The salient point is: NO Exceptions.

I think that Helmut has a fair point when the Merc driver goes off the track 29 times in the race, and Max goes off once and has to keep the place back.
No lasting advantage, really?
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Old 4 May 2021, 11:32 (Ref:4049587)   #63
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The salient point is: NO Exceptions.

I think that Helmut has a fair point when the Merc driver goes off the track 29 times in the race, and Max goes off once and has to keep the place back.
No lasting advantage, really?
Which race are we discussing?
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Old 4 May 2021, 11:39 (Ref:4049590)   #64
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The track limit stuff should be sorted before race
Understand at Imola they changed rules half way through race so the Marko remark is irrelevant.
Turn14 was stated as one of the corners being checked in Portugal so it’s a sod but he did get an advantage and probably the difference between his time and Bottas?
In golf it’s called the rub of the green and over the season it should even out.
LH will perceive he gets screwed somewhere as will Max.
It’s called sport.
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Old 4 May 2021, 13:04 (Ref:4049610)   #65
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I said before, just put a deterrent in places drivers are likely to gain an advantage by running wide. And to think it was a lot more clear cut when drivers only gained advantages from cutting chicanes
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Old 4 May 2021, 15:22 (Ref:4049645)   #66
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Y'know, I've lost count of the number of laps I've done around there and never thought of it as a bike circuit. That said if you look at where the track limits problems appear there is tarmac run off before the gravel.
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Old 4 May 2021, 19:15 (Ref:4049709)   #67
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As an aged club driver I agree that (a)consistency is needed and also (b) that if Mr Palmer can provide instant photographic evidence of triggering a sensor it shouldn't be beyond the the capability of the organisers of "the pinnacle of the sport"
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Old 4 May 2021, 20:36 (Ref:4049721)   #68
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So.

There were
18 lap times deleted for running wide in the race
7 lap times deleted for running wide in qualifying
88 lap times deleted for running wide in practice


But somehow because Max loses a point it’s unfair and inconsistent.....
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Old 4 May 2021, 22:29 (Ref:4049735)   #69
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I thought this was an interested article.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...n-win/6502259/
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Old 5 May 2021, 06:12 (Ref:4049755)   #70
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I thought this was an interested article.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/t...n-win/6502259/
Indeed. Hamilton was quite mindful about this in the post-race interview when asked about this. He started answering the question visibly very thoughtful on what to say. He stopped answering the question on how he used his tyres differently during the race saying something like: "I should not say much more". Probably not wanting to make Red Bull any wiser on what going on.
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Old 5 May 2021, 12:42 (Ref:4049824)   #71
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The 1 day headline of VB denying him of his 100th pole clearly doesnt bother him.

A driver needs to take the long approach to these overpacked seasons.
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Old 5 May 2021, 13:58 (Ref:4049853)   #72
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Agreed. Making the tracks themselves less dangerous to *all* who might race on them means that compromises are reached in so many ways - spectators are further away, run-off can be used as track, etc etc. Speaking from personal experience as someone going out to a club driver who's just dropped it into the same gravel trap for the third time that day, it can be pretty annoying for them (as Peter will no doubt attest!) to lose your hard-paid-for track time due to a fairly minor mistake. I was in no doubt that day how angry the driver was with the world!

It is, however, the (in)consistency which matters. As mentioned above, Donington, Oulton Park and Brands Hatch (definitely) plus Snetterton (possibly?) have sensors with cameras pointing at them at the major track limits zones. In Donington's case - exit of Redgate, exit of the Old Hairpin, exit of Mcleans and I think at the exit of the final corner, Robert's. There is no disputing the photos - they're available to the clerk within a few seconds of being taken.

If that can be applied at a historic meeting or in a novice's race at a club meeting, plus in the BTCC, I can't see it being too hard to adopt internationally.

Saying that... HM's words have been very carefully chosen. He's making it look like the FIA have deliberately taken positions/points/wins and therefore money away from his team by the application of a rule with which he (at this time) disagrees. If it was Mercedes being penalised, I expect he'd be rather quieter about it...

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Difficulty, as highlighted by CH the tracks have to cope with bikes and cars so the kerbs can't be too much of a penalty. Also the lack of grass or gravel is due to the possibility that a car leaving the circuit at speed will become airborne and/or roll. I don't think bike like gravel either.

What do you guys think about applying a 1.5m strip of low grip surface directly next to the kerb, it being grass, gravel astroturf or whatever is found most suitable?


1.5m would seem barely seem enough to flip a bike over, especially when a suitable surface is chosen. I would see the following advantages:


1 Automatically penalized without need to for the director to intervene or us or teambosses to get upset about anything.
2 Does take much room
3 Is not unsafe for bikes
4 Does not brakes cars like Austrian sausages

5 It's cheap to realize.
6 Errors are penalized but are not directly race ending (might be seen as positive or negative depend of ones POV.
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Old 6 May 2021, 15:05 (Ref:4050081)   #73
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
What do you guys think about applying a 1.5m strip of low grip surface directly next to the kerb, it being grass, gravel astroturf or whatever is found most suitable?


1.5m would seem barely seem enough to flip a bike over, especially when a suitable surface is chosen. I would see the following advantages:


1 Automatically penalized without need to for the director to intervene or us or teambosses to get upset about anything.
2 Does take much room
3 Is not unsafe for bikes
4 Does not brakes cars like Austrian sausages

5 It's cheap to realize.
6 Errors are penalized but are not directly race ending (might be seen as positive or negative depend of ones POV.
I like it. I would make it more like 3m wide though (ie wider than a F1 car). It would also need to be VERY low grip, as the current painted kerbs are probably somewhat lower friction than the tarmac but that doesn't dissuade drivers from using them.
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Old 7 May 2021, 07:14 (Ref:4050148)   #74
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I like it. I would make it more like 3m wide though (ie wider than a F1 car). It would also need to be VERY low grip, as the current painted kerbs are probably somewhat lower friction than the tarmac but that doesn't dissuade drivers from using them.

Yes the grip would need to be chosen such that it is always the slower and more risky option than staying on the track/kerb.


It would turn the track into track again. Meaning that you have the track (the tarmac) and then you have your margin of error; the kerb. That's it. The farther you decide to use the kerb the more risk of loosing it (like it used to be).


Now it's more like, yeah I go over the kerb and end up somewhere beside the track and well, we'll see what happens.




Quote:
2 Does take much room

Meant to say of course it does not take much room.
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Old 7 May 2021, 08:21 (Ref:4050158)   #75
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Max is now hoping for better run off solutions

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...mits-solution/
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