Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[ford71]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Roland's view on how Gen 3 is going and comments being made about it.

Good ol Roland.....

Opening point of article..

The appalling public undermining of the Supercars parity process by Ford Performance boss, Mark Rushbrook, last week was bad for the Sport, bad for Ford and bad for him.

A single mouse scroll down..

And maybe it’s now time to tell the real story of what happened at the January 2020 Supercars VCAT test at Oakley airfield in Queensland.

Cant help himself.
Carried on and on when Penske arrived and built a better car within the rules, until he got his (untested) changes.
Dude has a short memory when it suits.
Why is brake pumping having critical effect to the process? Lucky Dutto was on the case! He was on the ball that day. Last week at the 12hr he wasnt up to speed with the rulebook and had someone adjust the wing while in pitbay rather than taking the time to roll the car into the garage. Or he was up to speed but made the call to roll the dice and got caught. Its one of the 2, I'll vote for the latter.
Nothing worse than people painting themselves as saints and saviours but display the opposite and look you in the eye like you're too stupid to notice.

Ahh, its just more of the same, bring it on, I'm still here watching, and prefer rooting for the underdog anyway.

[banksie]

I believe Roland Dane implies it was David Cauchi who picked up the anomalies with the Ford data at the discussed VCAT test, but that is a minor detail in the picture.

Be good to see the times from the all in test next week. Chances are there'll be very little that separates all the teams.

[bluesport]

I'm wondering if the four valve motor on the mustang will have higher fuel consumption than the two valve chev unit........any thoughts?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by banksie

Be good to see the times from the all in test next week. Chances are there'll be very little that separates all the teams.

Extra engine and VCAT testing to be conducted, confirming Rushbrook's concerns:

Speedcafe.com understands that the aerodynamic work would take place between the category-organised all-in test day at Sydney Motorsport Park on Wednesday, February 22 and the first event of the season in the New South Wales Hunter Valley region in March.

Furthermore, there is not thought to be any concern about the total downforce figures for the Mustang compared to the Camaro. What is an issue, however, is the balance of front and rear downforce.

According to figures from both sides of the brand divide, the Mustang either has or is claimed to have more front downforce and less at the rear than the Camaro. That would make the Ford a better qualifying car, at least at most tracks which the Repco Supercars Championship visits, but give the Chevrolet the upper hand over a race distance.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15...-aero-testing/

Supercars is planning to put its prototype Gen3 cars back onto a chassis dyno before the season starts, Speedcafe.com has learnt.

Engine dynamometer testing by Supercars’ Craig Hasted is claimed to have shown that the Mustang’s 5.4-litre double overhead cam unit and Camaro’s 5.7-litre pushrod powerplant are in parity with each other, and that much is not necessarily in dispute.

However, gear shifting and/or mapping remains a bone of contention within the Ford camp, as reflected in Rushbrook’s comments. It would therefore stand to reason that a chassis dyno run would either settle the matter or close in on the issue, given the broader powertrains could be tested against each other in a controlled environment.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15...ssis-dyno-run/

Rushbrook would not have raised the topic if prior testing showed no issues after all.

The power delivery, in track conditions including the gearshift spark cut, and aerodynamic balance has to be spot on. For it to be otherwise is obviously not an option.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bloggs

Looking at all the galleries of the new cars, I notice a Big difference to the front wings on the cars. Why do the Camaros have end plates on the front wings, and the Mustangs dont?

The shape of the cars underneath them is different, so you should not expect the aero solutions to be the same.

It's the same as when they homologated the Nissan COTF car, it looked like the bloody rear spoiler wasn't even in the same postcode as the car!

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Extra engine and VCAT testing to be conducted, confirming Rushbrook's concerns:


https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15...-aero-testing/


https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15...ssis-dyno-run/

Rushbrook would not have raised the topic if prior testing showed no issues after all.

The power delivery, in track conditions including the gearshift spark cut, and aerodynamic balance has to be spot on. For it to be otherwise is obviously not an option.

Very true, it looks like Rushbrook was right on the money all along.

Egg on Roland's face by the look of it.

[Compromised]

Unless something drastically changes I have no faith in Supercars to run two different cars fairly. I don't claim bias or favouritism, just a stubborn refusal to move with the times.

It's a shame too, pretty much everything else - tv production, racing quality, driving standard's etc, are all top notch.

Too bad

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bloggs

Looking at all the galleries of the new cars, I notice a Big difference to the front wings on the cars. Why do the Camaros have end plates on the front wings, and the Mustangs dont?

With the revelations (allegedly from both sides) of different aero / downforce balance between the two cars today, I presume it is a move to increase the Chev front end at the same time reducing that of the Ford.

What they are planning to redress the rear balance on the two cars to balance it out I have no idea..... It seems they might not either.

Thi explains what I am talking about

there is not thought to be any concern about the total downforce figures for the Mustang compared to the Camaro.

What is an issue, however, is the balance of front and rear downforce.

According to figures from both sides of the brand divide, the Mustang either has or is claimed to have more front downforce and less at the rear than the Camaro.

That would make the Ford a better qualifying car, at least at most tracks which the Repco Supercars Championship visits, but give the Chevrolet the upper hand over a race distance.

One prominent paddock figure told Speedcafe.com recently, “Right now, they reckon that the Fords will be faster over a lap but the Chevy’s going to win all the races.

They added, “The way the aero balance has worked out, [the Mustang has] got too much front and not enough rear, and the Chevy’s the opposite.

“Obviously, over a distance, you always want rear downforce for tyre life, especially when you’ve got less aero – the tyre’s going to chew out more, especially at the rear.”

extract from https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/15...-aero-testing/

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by E.B

What they are planning to redress the rear balance on the two cars to balance it out I have no idea..... It seems they might not either.

(Obviously the front splitter and rear wing are spec parts for both models as discussed in the Brad Jones Racing videos. The new spec splitter is full of triangular cutouts to make it less effective.)

The easiest way would be to add some more holes in the front splitter of the Mustang to detune front downforce, then make up some new wing mount brackets for the rear wing to move the rear wing to a more advantageous position to tune up rear downforce (probably moving the spec rear wing higher and further back).

(You could just increase the angle of the attack of the Mustang's rear wing, but that would increase drag. Or add a Gurney to the wing or Gurney to the bootlid extension or fit larger rear wing endplates or fit a wider rear wing etc, but these seem like things Supercars want to avoid with these new cars.)

[GTRMagic]

Anybody taken out the magnifying glass to look for the “massive” level of on-car branding and support for “every car in the field”

If this is meant to mean free drive cars.. then I suppose they achieved actualisation

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Anybody taken out the magnifying glass to look for the “massive” level of on-car branding and support for “every car in the field”

If this is meant to mean free drive cars.. then I suppose they achieved actualisation

There seems to be a distinct lack of Chevrolet support. Given this, why on Earth did Supercars organisers not prioritise a Nissan Z program -- if the organisers are paying for a Camaro program, surely a Z program is just as critical to ensuring variety in the ATCC? It makes no sense.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

There seems to be a distinct lack of Chevrolet support. Given this, why on Earth did Supercars organisers not prioritise a Nissan Z program -- if the organisers are paying for a Camaro program, surely a Z program is just as critical to ensuring variety in the ATCC? It makes no sense.

Critical? The Z has a future so they can take their time. The Camaro is gone after next year so it was critical for them to put big dollars and time into its program to get it on track quickly. This way they maximize their ROI....for two years....

Savvy operators these guys

[bluesport]

Supercars.com
Mostert hails WAU crew for Gen3 turnaround

https://www.supercars.com/news/champ...n3-turnaround/

[bluesport]

Reynolds describes Tander feedback as ‘unbelievable’

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/18...-unbelievable/

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

There seems to be a distinct lack of Chevrolet support. Given this, why on Earth did Supercars organisers not prioritise a Nissan Z program -- if the organisers are paying for a Camaro program, surely a Z program is just as critical to ensuring variety in the ATCC? It makes no sense.

Because Holden fans would walk away instantly if there was no GM product on the grid day 1.There goes half your fan base.
BTW The weather forecast for test day is wet wet wet.

[GTRMagic]

Meantime, raining cats and dogs in Western Sydney, has done since around 10.30pm
The test day will be interesting..

[S griffin]

Get quite a few of those conditions down under, let's see if it stops in time for the test day. If it's damp it shouldn't be too much trouble

[GTRMagic]

They sound MEAN!!
Woohoo!!!

Not sure why #18 #20 #3 and #99 are still in the shed, still to fire a shot.

It’s been raining but has been clear for perhaps the last 45 minutes or so..

[V8 Fireworks]

More VCAT testing required:

Details of Supercars’ next round of Gen3 aerodynamic testing have emerged.

Speedcafe.com understands that further work, dubbed by some as a ‘mini VCAT’, is set to take place next week.

The location is thought to be Temora Aerodrome, where a booking of several days is believed to have been made.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/02/22...-aero-testing/

Also:

Pye was unable to complete his full programme at the all-in, pre-season test at the Eastern Creek circuit, his day coming to an end more than an hour early. The issues was a broken gearbox mount, which is a control part on the new Gen3 cars.

"We thought the [gearbox] mount wasn't going to be up to scratch," said Team 18 team manager Bruin Beasley.

"We thought about it and we've already designed a steel version of it, which we'll propose to use, because we think it will be better.

"We went through this with the Gen2 car. We've spoken to Supercars about it now and they've said, 'send it through to us and give us a look at it'."

https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...cars/10434812/

Whoops!

It seems odd they have to think about it rather than just approve it and mandate it...

Would they say that if 888 had proposed it? It seems more than a little conflict-of-interest that 888 have designed the majority of the Gen 3 chassis.

It seems someone also made a mistake when calculating the required tolerances of the wheel nut threads, perhaps forgetting to calculate the expansion coefficient of a hot spindle compared to a cold wheel nut:

As for the spindle issue, teams have been complaining about the difficulty of mounting cold rims to the car when the wheel hub is hot from on-track running.

Potential solves, such as different spindle tolerances, are also in action today.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...nues/10434806/

[bluesport]

Clearly a lot of work to be done to achieve parity.

http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6506394...667.81c/View?2

[Mixer]

Fords all running around on old hard tyres with mixed weather. Cynic might say deliberately.

BJR going for hollywood times, nothing to see here.

Word from the traps is that all the cars were within 1km of each other on speed traps so there doesn't seem to be much in it.

[banksie]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Clearly a lot of work to be done to achieve parity.

http://racing.natsoft.com.au/6506394...667.81c/View?2

Hard to judge if teams don't run the same tyres. V8 Sleuth story

[Mixer]

Todd Hazelwood obviously didn't get the memo and was the only Mustang to break into the top 10:
https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...KM70hH7KoI2a14

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by banksie

Hard to judge if teams don't run the same tyres. V8 Sleuth story

Seems silly to allow different tyres on a test day such as this.......we'll just have to wait for Newcastle.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Todd Hazelwood obviously didn't get the memo and was the only Mustang to break into the top 10:
https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...KM70hH7KoI2a14

Lol, seriously what else would you expect Brad Jones to say?