[LM24] Le Mans 2021 21/22 August - Who Is Going?

[bella]

you seem to be labouring under the false illusion that there is a "correct" way to manage this. there isn't. we probably could have shut our borders to indian arrivals earlier, but the rest of the continent could have done the same and stopped people trying to transit via other countries after we'd banned flights.

i also pay my £60 to leave the uk and £130 for 2 & 8 day to return, so you're preaching to the converted. at this point my own four walls are driving me insane. what makes it more frustrating is that in the uk we're supposed to be testing ourselves twice a week with lateral flow devices which is actually more frequently than the return pcr test regime for amber countries. go figure.

you cannot penalise people who have been vaccinated and who take the appropriate precautions for the sake of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated at this point.

since we're throwing statistics around, here's some good ones:
france has around about eight times the number of people currently in hospital being treated for covid than the uk - 10,000 versus 1,500. we have 250 patients on mechanical ventilation, france has 2,000 in intensive care. that's more than the entire number of people being treated for covid in uk hospitals. france STILL has more people admitted per week to hospital for treatment than we do in the uk, despite an apparent low case rate.

frankly i'm worried for british people going to france unvaccinated, it looks pretty dangerous to me. it's not a pretty picture. what's that, i'm only looking at part of the story and using the stats to suit my argument?

exactly.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bella

frankly i'm worried for british people going to france unvaccinated, it looks pretty dangerous to me. it's not a pretty picture.

To be quite honest, I would debate the sanity of anyone planning to travel to Le Mans (or anywhere really) if they've not been vaccinated.

[Kpy]

Originally Posted by bella

you seem to be labouring under the false illusion that there is a "correct" way to manage this. there isn't. we probably could have shut our borders to indian arrivals earlier, but the rest of the continent could have done the same and stopped people trying to transit via other countries after we'd banned flights.

i also pay my £60 to leave the uk and £130 for 2 & 8 day to return, so you're preaching to the converted. at this point my own four walls are driving me insane. what makes it more frustrating is that in the uk we're supposed to be testing ourselves twice a week with lateral flow devices which is actually more frequently than the return pcr test regime for amber countries. go figure.

you cannot penalise people who have been vaccinated and who take the appropriate precautions for the sake of those who have chosen not to be vaccinated at this point.

since we're throwing statistics around, here's some good ones:
france has around about eight times the number of people currently in hospital being treated for covid than the uk - 10,000 versus 1,500. we have 250 patients on mechanical ventilation, france has 2,000 in intensive care. that's more than the entire number of people being treated for covid in uk hospitals. france STILL has more people admitted per week to hospital for treatment than we do in the uk, despite an apparent low case rate.

frankly i'm worried for british people going to france unvaccinated, it looks pretty dangerous to me. it's not a pretty picture. what's that, i'm only looking at part of the story and using the stats to suit my argument?

exactly.

No Bella I'm not suggesting that things should be managed in a certain way, just trying to explain what the situation is regarding cross-border travel particularly with a view to spectating at the Le Mans 24 Hours.

I live in France and since my wife died 5 years ago all my family, six daughters and step-daughters, 14 grandchildren and just one great grandson, live in the UK. I haven't seen any of them since January 2020, so I'm very interested in the travel situation. One of my step-daughters who's an NHS has had covid, along with her entire family as her husband is a doctor working on covid wards at the Radcliff in Oxford and brought the virus home. For that matter one of my longest standing friends died of the virus a few months ago. We discovered motor racing together in the early sixties - he worked in the sport from the age of about 26 onwards while I went off to a different career.

But I'm only observing, not pontificating on how governments should act.

There's absolutely no doubt that the UK was and is way ahead in its vaccination programme, by contrast the EU handled the vaccination situation very badly both centrally and individually in member states. I'm lucky in that I was fully vaccinated by the end of March and all my friends here are now vaccinated.

I'll take your figures on hospitalisation etc. as read, although standards for admission to hospital must vary between the two countries, as current covid patients are recorded as 231,339 in UK and 68,213 in France.
You have far more experience than I do in crossing borders recently, in the last 15 months or so I've only left France to go to Italy and Spain, but I totally agree with you that unvaccinated people shouldn't come to France. Same applies to unvaccinated EU citizens going to the UK.

So I'm not telling anyone what the border crossing situation should be, just observing what's happening and why.

[Kpy]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

To be quite honest, I would debate the sanity of anyone planning to travel to Le Mans (or anywhere really) if they've not been vaccinated.

I'll second that.

[S griffin]

I’ll third that

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

To be quite honest, I would debate the sanity of anyone planning to travel to Le Mans (or anywhere really) if they've not been vaccinated.

Stay safe at home and see what happens.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Kpy

For that matter one of my longest standing friends died of the virus a few months ago. We discovered motor racing together in the early sixties - he worked in the sport from the age of about 26 onwards while I went off to a different career.

sorry to hear about your friend. the virus isn't at all something to minimise, but now we have a vaccine and most european countries have protected their more vulnerable populations we absolutely do need to take steps to return to a level of normality. it's a statement that was impossible to support 6 months ago, but now so many in the eu are vaccinated, we need to move on. if only to demonstrate to those who aren't vaccinated by choice that they're going to be left behind.

that's why i don't support mandatory quarantine for vaccinated people. in our european part of the world, we're more or less back on a level playing field so now is actually a pretty good opportunity to act as a continent.

Originally Posted by Kpy

I'll take your figures on hospitalisation etc. as read, although standards for admission to hospital must vary between the two countries, as current covid patients are recorded as 231,339 in UK and 68,213 in France.

stats are whatever people want them to say, admittedly! but remember that 83% have been vaccinated with at least one dose in the uk and the majority of people infected are young. so a low hospitalisation rate makes sense. the slow takeup of vaccinations and relatively late start of an intensive programme would correlate with the hospital occupation figures as well. the french also conduct a quarter of the number of tests we do, which is interesting in its own right!

i really hope there aren't blanket quarantine requirements for uk travellers. i'd be happy for there to be bans on holidays, but people who work need to be able to travel, and that includes motorsport staff. which brings us very vaguely back to the topic

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Kpy

I'll take your figures on hospitalisation etc. as read, although standards for admission to hospital must vary between the two countries, as current covid patients are recorded as 231,339 in UK and 68,213 in France.

There are currently 1,500 people in hospital in the UK with Covid: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

[Kpy]

Originally Posted by bella

i really hope there aren't blanket quarantine requirements for uk travellers. i'd be happy for there to be bans on holidays, but people who work need to be able to travel, and that includes motorsport staff. which brings us very vaguely back to the topic

I go along with you 100%, in fact probably further, as I'd like to see some of my family here, as long as they're fully vaccinated.
And fingers crossed for everyone on this forum who's aiming to be at le Mans in August.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Kpy

I go along with you 100%, in fact probably further, as I'd like to see some of my family here, as long as they're fully vaccinated.
And fingers crossed for everyone on this forum who's aiming to be at le Mans in August.

well, we're getting there now, hopefully all of your family have at least got their first booked. i feel sorry for the young people having to wait for their vaccination, but there's definitely light at the end of the tunnel and this time it isn't a train

ferry costs are very high at the moment as well, i'm going to need that to come down a bit before we get too excited

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Kpy

And fingers crossed for everyone on this forum who's aiming to be at le Mans in August.

Cheers to that

[whitemr2]

No letter!! Anyone???

[GT6]

Not had actual letter yet, but have had an email from the aco, some people have been able to access the part of the members site that you can print of the tickets but as yet i have not been able to access it myself

[Simmi]

No letter for me as yet. I think that invoice you can access online is essentially what you'll receive though. I didn't select to print my own tickets (way back when I ordered these tix) so I don't think there will be a link for me to download them.

[whitemr2]

Originally Posted by Simmi

No letter for me as yet. I think that invoice you can access online is essentially what you'll receive though. I didn't select to print my own tickets (way back when I ordered these tix) so I don't think there will be a link for me to download them.

Looks like it yes, but I want to change that and I understood I could do that after the letter is received.

[Bentley03]

My letter was posted on 17th June from Le Mans and arrived the following Monday, 21st June.

It is basically a hard copy of the online 'commande' on your order history with various options of what you can do (apply credit note and accept the ticket order in full, amend ticket order and apply credit note and receive refund for balance, refuse ticket order and request full refund).

Although the format of the letter is such that you assume you need to complete it and return it by post, you don't have to do this and can complete your ticket order over the phone, which is very straightforward, the staff in the ticket office are fully up to speed and have answers to any questions you might have and are extremely helpful.

In my case I simply reduced the ticket order over the phone. The person I spoke to was able to tell me the seat numbers reserved in T17 (which are the exact seats we have every year) and the exact parking space in Parking Blanc. I was given the total cost of the tickets, the credit note was applied, the amount of the refund due given to me and I was told I would receive the refund form by email, which I will need to complete and return, within the next couple of weeks. Once they have processed the credit note payment and refund the e-tickets will be loaded online and made available for me to print off.

The letter states that tickets will be sent out by courier, must be signed for in person etc. etc. and will arrive no later than the week before the race. Ignore this, the goalposts have moved and they are no longer planning to send the tickets out. If you want proper printed tickets you can arrange to go to an ACO shop and get them printed out there (Rouen, Tours etc.).

I double checked regarding Mulsanne and Arnage enclosures and as long as you have purchased a parking ticket for Rouge or Blanc you will be able to gain access to the enclosures in your car (they are using the camping areas as car parking areas this year).

I assumed all letters were posted out the same day as mine, but maybe they did it in stages. But, the only way to take the guesswork out of what's going on with your ticket order is to give them a call.

So, tickets are sorted, but I sense it's curtains for any of us hoping to travel from the UK, given that 'German style' quarantine restrictions for people travelling to France from the UK will inevitably be put in place over the next few days.

Now ramping up the planning/organisation of Plan B....

[whitemr2]

Thank you the above is very helpfull and comforting.

[Michel Vaillant]

IMO, french government communication about vaccines is poor. So, we are wasting precious time, and normal life is an endlessly rejected mirage...

For example, we have constantly hype about general hospitalization figures. But, why they didn't say how many are vaccinated, and no vaccinated in hospitals ?

I find in practice, advantages of vaccines is not enough demonstrated concretely, not enough obvious for many peoples. If you say, for example, on TV add or radio, "95% of patients in intensive car unit are not vaccinated", it's more impacting and motivating.
Currently, press and gov are focus on numbers of contaminations and hospitalization, but they don't distinguish vaccinated/unvaccinated.

[Gerard C]

Dont you think the communication reflects what they do and dont? You could also add that when a great majority of the inhabitants of retirement homes was vaccinated it took a while to make the decision to vaccine the doctors and nurses in charge… And it seems to me that communication about vaccines was linked to the stock levels or planed deliveries… Politicians.
https://solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/gr...la-vaccination

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Michel Vaillant

Currently, press and gov are focus on numbers of contaminations and hospitalization, but they don't distinguish vaccinated/unvaccinated.

That sounds very much like our media were a few months ago.....

[Gerard C]

They have a new "toy" with the indian variant. Too much focused on the holidays all they say is "lets see what happens".

[GT6]

My snail mail letter turned up today, credit for 1 TR camping was 170 euro's new blue nord (now Eppinettes) and 2 race tickets came to exactly the same 170 euro's, very convenient. Not sure if i need to do anything so will email ACO on Monday.

All looking good, hopefully.

[batmobile]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

My letter was posted on 17th June from Le Mans and arrived the following Monday, 21st June.

It is basically a hard copy of the online 'commande' on your order history with various options of what you can do (apply credit note and accept the ticket order in full, amend ticket order and apply credit note and receive refund for balance, refuse ticket order and request full refund).

Although the format of the letter is such that you assume you need to complete it and return it by post, you don't have to do this and can complete your ticket order over the phone, which is very straightforward, the staff in the ticket office are fully up to speed and have answers to any questions you might have and are extremely helpful.

In my case I simply reduced the ticket order over the phone. The person I spoke to was able to tell me the seat numbers reserved in T17 (which are the exact seats we have every year) and the exact parking space in Parking Blanc. I was given the total cost of the tickets, the credit note was applied, the amount of the refund due given to me and I was told I would receive the refund form by email, which I will need to complete and return, within the next couple of weeks. Once they have processed the credit note payment and refund the e-tickets will be loaded online and made available for me to print off.

The letter states that tickets will be sent out by courier, must be signed for in person etc. etc. and will arrive no later than the week before the race. Ignore this, the goalposts have moved and they are no longer planning to send the tickets out. If you want proper printed tickets you can arrange to go to an ACO shop and get them printed out there (Rouen, Tours etc.).

I double checked regarding Mulsanne and Arnage enclosures and as long as you have purchased a parking ticket for Rouge or Blanc you will be able to gain access to the enclosures in your car (they are using the camping areas as car parking areas this year).

I assumed all letters were posted out the same day as mine, but maybe they did it in stages. But, the only way to take the guesswork out of what's going on with your ticket order is to give them a call.

So, tickets are sorted, but I sense it's curtains for any of us hoping to travel from the UK, given that 'German style' quarantine restrictions for people travelling to France from the UK will inevitably be put in place over the next few days.

Now ramping up the planning/organisation of Plan B....

Done for me. Letter arrived yesterday. Same sweats in grandstand 18. Camping Houx annexe. All tickets booked. Ready.

Envoyé de mon SM-A600FN en utilisant Tapatalk

[Adam43]

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Please allow me a moment to butt into this conversation that you all have been having. Reading what you all have written, the thoughtfulness behind it, the respect you are showing one another is a breath of fresh air.

Unfortunately here in the States our political discourse is so toxic, and so divided that it is nearly impossible to have a conversation with such openness and respect. Just today I had an ugly conversation with a cousin about Covid. I am on the cautious side that is willing (and has been) to get vaccinated while he is on the side of refusing to get vaccinated, thinks that the virus is a hoax, and finally admitted to me that he won't wear a mask in public. The conversations we have (arguments) about this subject get ugly real fast.

I know that this is a racing forum, and that none of us ever thought, or wanted to discuss matters of viruses and border closings on this site. I am proud to be a part of an adaptable community that shows each other respect, even when disagreeing.

That is all. I will go back to convincing myself that it will be okay to miss another year of Le Mans in person, and my jealousy of those who will be attending (no matter how much different it may be).