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Old 1 Jun 2012, 21:41 (Ref:3083539)   #51
mountainstar
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Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan View Post
This is where the lack of open information on this kind of stuff is a hindrance to the sport. Everyone else works for peanuts? We don't know what the 15th-best driver in Indycar now makes in comparison to his comparative number in 2002, 1992, 1982, 1972, etc. We don't know gate money is received like in boxing or MMA for example because promoters would never release them. We don't know what rent for a track is. In modern athlete terms it's probably peanuts but if you find who that driver was 30 years ago, I doubt that man was rich he probably had a working-class to middle-class living as a racecar driver, so that'd be something that's not changed.

NASCAR's having its struggles too at the moment. And I would never tell even a talented driver in the U.S. to move over and try F1. It's not worth it and a lot of people over there would be wanting you to fail.

You mention Conor Daly, I've talked to guys that raced against Daly, and they don't respect him because they knew they were better than him racing against him at lower levels. And this guy won a Star Mazda title, an Indy Lights race, and is now following around the F1 circuit in GP3.

The issue with that though is you're effectively Marty Roth then. That's part of what detracts from sportscars for me is versions of Marty Roth are half the fields it has sometimes seemed, Marty Roth in Indycar was vilified, Marty Roth in sportscars would be perfectly normal. I'll defend Roth before I defend the Milka Dunos and Hiro Matsushi+as of the world because leaving his talent or lack thereof out of it, he created his own ride, he did not buy anyone else's, but still you're not going to have a series people care about if people like him are a good portion of your grid.
In regards to pay, I know enough drivers from past and present or they are friends of friends and of what I know, drivers in CART did better financially than they do now, inflation adjusted dollars of course. There are very few in the irl that after expenses and insurance, make a decent packet of wages.

Therefore if you are looking to make a living as a driver, the irl is not a place you want to aim for, especially considering millions have to be spent getting you there. Not a good return on investment, which is why the irl is filled with wealthy ride buyers instead of quality American talent.

In regards to Conor Daly, fast only counts in results on the track, not trackside bench racing BS. You say your friends "knew" they were better, but that doesn't count for anything.

I only met Conor once years ago. We were running an event where a skippy race was on the menu also. We got talking to his dad and Conor came over when he wasn't racing to shag cones for us. Seemed like a nice kid, but focused and I felt had the right mindset to succeed for sure. Just the fact he is in GP3 says a lot, as they don't exactly roll out the welcome wagon for Americans in Europe. That is a much more intense environment. indy lights is amateur hour by comparison.

My point about creating wealth and then going racing is aimed at those without the resources or connections at a young age. If you are 18 and working a minimum wage job or are in college, you will not be racing open wheel formula cars unless daddy is writing big checks. Even if you save up for a 3 day school at Skippy, well after that what do you do? In my opinion to even get your name recognized at all or get decent start up experience you need at least $100k to get going. Haydenfan is a good example here. I remember when he ran in Skippy. He and dad blew a sizable chunk of change and to what end?

Yep there are people that by hook or crook have pulled it off, I've created some great opportunities for myself by just knocking on doors, but I think overall you are better off creating wealth for yourself and then going racing. Again I'm talking to those without rich dads.

Zak Brown is a great example. I remember when he was scraping around getting bottom of the barrel rides back in the early 1990's, going nowhere. He started his own motorsport marketing business and turned himself into a major multi millionaire and now he does whatever the hell he wants and has the clout and connections now to seek out alternative funding as well. Very smart guy.
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Old 1 Jun 2012, 21:55 (Ref:3083546)   #52
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Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan View Post
The people that told me never did Skip Barber, it was shifter karts when Derek would buy his son the latest and greatest and then per my friend would go around to every other pitbox to talk to all the other drivers to see what they were running. "You know what we're running, we're running the same thing you are." (direct quote) .

It's about the same criticisms I heard about Danica and Marco some years ago from the same guy, and it's the same criticism I personally have of Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Marco Andretti is a guy we would have never heard of, if he wasn't who he was. He's a hopeless driver as far as I'm concerned and I'm no fan of all that nepotism. But.....

It's part of the point I'm trying to get at, which is there is more to it when it comes to professional motorsports, than just pure talent.

In fact I know of some very talented drivers who sort of did make it, but they were either lazy or abrasive people and their career ran out of gas. One guy I worked with one time was reasonably successful in 1990's, getting paid for a number of years, but his career fizzled and by his own admission it was because he was lazy.

Actually Derek Daly put together a nice book about all this, which is probably the first time someone adequately addressed these issues in a printed form.

And also at the end of the day, I never give a damn about all those people or what they think. There are always going to be people with a known name or with a rich dad or who are independently wealthy. What is more important is what you want to do and what resources you have to accomplish that goal. And when aiming for a pro career, one must have a business mind about it and consider a return on investment for what you or others are sinking into it.
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Old 1 Jun 2012, 22:39 (Ref:3083562)   #53
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Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
My point about creating wealth and then going racing is aimed at those without the resources or connections at a young age. If you are 18 and working a minimum wage job or are in college, you will not be racing open wheel formula cars unless daddy is writing big checks. Even if you save up for a 3 day school at Skippy, well after that what do you do? In my opinion to even get your name recognized at all or get decent start up experience you need at least $100k to get going. Haydenfan is a good example here. I remember when he ran in Skippy. He and dad blew a sizable chunk of change and to what end?

Zak Brown is a great example. I remember when he was scraping around getting bottom of the barrel rides back in the early 1990's, going nowhere. He started his own motorsport marketing business and turned himself into a major multi millionaire and now he does whatever the hell he wants and has the clout and connections now to seek out alternative funding as well. Very smart guy.
Don't get me started on those two seasons of doom. We could have continued up the ladder (well if you call F2000 a move up from Skip Barber), but running midpack for the type of money we were spending was not worth it. I was improving, just not at the level that our finances allowed. You have those drivers we all talk about. "Give him another season or two and he'll be a superstar." Tell me you haven't said that about a driver? I felt given the right situation I could have been a front runner. But we, and most drivers, didn't have those fund for the extra year.

Zak Brown is quick too though. Just seems that even when he was starting out money was the same issue all face now, because he can peddle a GT car at his age, better than people 15 years his elder. You look at the amateur classes in the Blancpain Endurance Championship and FIA GT1 (we're getting off topic aren't we mod?), and there are a few really good drivers that seem to be living their dream just a decade or two later than they had wished.

But trying to stay a bit on topic. I know Zack Veach hasn't shown on the track that he's anything special, but he has worked his butt off to get into racing. Having a family to spend money doesn't help, but he seems to work to repay some of that cash. He has found sponsors and has written a book (stupid book. Read it, not very useful unless you live that lifestyle that he does.), but that is something that Paul Tracy never did. Come to think of it, getting off topic again, could PT read? I mean he never came across as the brightest guy on the grid. But back to the young drivers. Some of these kids are impressive. A bit robotic, but I'd try to make personal lube sounds like a great product (actually.... oh never mind) if it helped me race. My only sponsor was a local Ford dealership (amounted to a free use of a car for a weekend of my choice, for which I borrowed a Ford GT; they didn't write the contract very well, and what amounted to the costs of driving to the races, flights were what the rich do) and I hawked that place like no other. I sent my overalls to a place to get about 6 logos of the place sewn on. One guy wanted to interview me for some website and asked if my name was that of the dealership. But it helped my racing.

Back on topic.

Here's the results from the 2 practice sessions today from Detroit (going there Sunday). FP1 was wet and only a couple of a guys went out.

1. Savaadra
2. Vautier
3. Yacaman
4. Guerrieri
5. Dempsey
6. Goncalvez
7. Munoz
8. Garcia
9. Day
10. Carbone
11. Webb (he's a huge disappointment this season)
12. Ostella (running in a TMR/BHA combined entry as his car was beyond quick repair from Indy)
13. Ebrahim (the other big disappointment. No wonder he spent 3 lackluster years in F2. F2!)
14. Younessi (old guy who vaulted a fortune made from a Harley dealership into a racing team.)

Yes, only 14 cars. But with Ostella running a joint entry, I am not worried about the grid falling too far down. Still wish for another 5-6 cars as while the top 5-6 are competitive as can be, a extra cars just look better. Even if it was the likes of EuroBrun and Zakspeed, people loved the huge grids found in F1 during the 80's.
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Old 2 Jun 2012, 01:43 (Ref:3083596)   #54
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Originally Posted by HaydenFan View Post
Don't get me started on those two seasons of doom. We could have continued up the ladder (well if you call F2000 a move up from Skip Barber), but running midpack for the type of money we were spending was not worth it. I was improving, just not at the level that our finances allowed. You have those drivers we all talk about. "Give him another season or two and he'll be a superstar." Tell me you haven't said that about a driver? I felt given the right situation I could have been a front runner. But we, and most drivers, didn't have those fund for the extra year.

Zak Brown is quick too though. Just seems that even when he was starting out money was the same issue all face now,
Well that is just the thing, if you don't have access to funds big enough to take you to the top, then every season you are taking a punt on hoping you can get a sponsor/patron/scholarship to move forward another season. It's a gamble and one that doesn't work out for most people.

Also drivers need time to develop, doesn't matter how great you are and there again it comes down to money.

My issue with this whole "road to indy" is questioning for most of these drivers, especially Americans, if that is the road you want to be on, rather investing instead in racing stock cars, because at least there you can earn some prize money and regional or national sponsors and have a shot at moving up and having a "career".

Too many of these drivers, especially the ones that can freely spend, don't look at this as running a business or an investment. If one says "Ok I am going to spend $100K+ to run FF2000 this year", well you need to ask what exactly that is going to do for your career, what you will gain out of it and what your return on investment is.

Money is always going to be an issue. It's an expensive sport and that isn't going to change.
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Old 2 Jun 2012, 11:36 (Ref:3083718)   #55
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HaydenFan, were you in karting? If so, did you feel that your karting career had run it's course?
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Old 2 Jun 2012, 11:38 (Ref:3083719)   #56
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Elan, Van Diemen, same company now. I don't pay attention much to the club racing or F2000 scene, so I don't know much about the cars. But it's semantics.
Actually, I think the chassis you're talking about is the RFR.
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Old 2 Jun 2012, 13:36 (Ref:3083761)   #57
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HaydenFan, were you in karting? If so, did you feel that your karting career had run it's course?
We did the local karting scene for a few years. I did a few of the national races, but not a full season. Picked up a title and some nice trophies. Ran the Rock Island GP one year. That's the biggest race I've ever done. But we figured for the costs of moving up to the national level, and we'd have to buy a gig with a team as set-ups where we struggled with, why not just make the bigger jump to cars? IMO, karting doesn't teach you much about racing, other than the sport itself. The actual feeling between a kart and a single seater racer were completely different. I learned most about running with other people on the track, which is something I think many drivers struggle with (i.e. Massa).

Plus, even when I started karts at 14, I was over 5'10, 160ish pounds. I was the biggest kid in any class I raced, and was one of the biggest guys racing at the track.

Some said due to my size that I should give sports cars and touring cars a go, but I love single seater racing. I have tested an ARCA car around a road course for a few laps, but I didn't like it.
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Old 2 Jun 2012, 14:20 (Ref:3083779)   #58
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Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
In regards to pay, I know enough drivers from past and present or they are friends of friends and of what I know, drivers in CART did better financially than they do now, inflation adjusted dollars of course. There are very few in the irl that after expenses and insurance, make a decent packet of wages.
How many of these drivers actively worked to build themselves a fanbase? The one man I'm most critical on in Indycars when people say Indycar doesn't have the support it once did and why not is Scott Dixon. Scott Dixon is a good driver but he has all the personality of a cardboard box, so why would anyone cheer for Scott Dixon? So the man draws nothing. The concept of a draw is something from boxing/MMA/pro wrestling that very definitely applies in auto racing but people never think about things in such a matter. Castroneves, Kanaan, Danica, all those drivers worked to get themselves a fanbase. I don't think Will Power in contrast understands what the hell that is. If you want to make more money, you draw more people to the track and more people to watch on TV. When those things happen, the series is worth more, you make yourself valuable to sponsors and you get paid more.

Quote:
In regards to Conor Daly, fast only counts in results on the track, not trackside bench racing BS. You say your friends "knew" they were better, but that doesn't count for anything.
They raced against him.

Quote:
Just the fact he is in GP3 says a lot, as they don't exactly roll out the welcome wagon for Americans in Europe.
The people on this board mostly ridicule GP3 if you go read the thread on it.

Quote:
My point about creating wealth and then going racing is aimed at those without the resources or connections at a young age. If you are 18 and working a minimum wage job or are in college, you will not be racing open wheel formula cars unless daddy is writing big checks.
And that's why Indycar died in the early '90s and NASCAR far and away surpassed it, it's best exemplified by Jeff Gordon, and Gordon wanted to be in CART. Trying to emulate F1 as opposed to catering to the market they were based in is why no one makes any money now because CART told its base audience "eff you", so their base audience left and went and watched NASCAR which more reflected the values of racing they believed in, and then when that happened all the sponsors left.

The costs of running also killed everything. One thing I was listening to was Donald Davidson discussing a guy named King that would copy a year-old Eagle in the '70s and it'd be called a Kingfish. He went there and talked to someone and they said they were expecting more orders that year because the Eagle was expensive that year. The Eagle that year (think he said 1973) was $30000. The Kingfish brand new was $5000. Even accounting for inflation, that's dirt cheap compared to now. It's why I said when designing the car and engine rules they should've made it tubeframes, every county in Indiana has a shop that could weld up a tubeframe. On the engines, I still don't know if you're required to have a manufacturer's badge or not, but going to turbocharging greatly increased the cost of building an engine. I work a lot with turbochargers on engines in my day job, so no one's going to challenge me on this point unless you want me to skewer you.

And once you greatly reduce car costs, you reduce the need for teams to have ride buyers. The single worst thing that has happened to the sport of auto racing globally on its highest end is we have divorced the cars and teams away from the financial support the series receive, be it sponsorship and ticket sales and purse money. I was reading on the British F3 thread once and guys there talking about it, and racing can improve financially, you'd still never find guys able to come up with 800k pounds in sponsorship. But the people don't want to reduce car technology even when the series cannot support it and no one buys tickets to watch it, it boggles me.

Last edited by Flyin Ryan; 2 Jun 2012 at 14:33.
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Old 4 Jun 2012, 00:32 (Ref:3084841)   #59
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Very interesting debate with many well-made points, guys.

Being from Down Under I can't comment with much authority on the USA scene, especially the higher levels, although I must agree that the two drivers mentioned from here don't promote themselves very well. Our culture doesn't take kindly to prople who 'blow their own trumpet', unlike the USA. Also their personalities aren't particularly outgoing. Also many racing drivers, like many other sports stars, don't have great personalities.

Marcos Ambrose is different. He copped some resentment locally for 'deserting' V8 Supercars to try his hand at NASCAR, but he's achieved a lot for someone who'd never raced on ovals before.

Put simply, success in top level motorsport requires talent, determination and opportunity. Two of the three won't cut it.
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Old 4 Jun 2012, 00:34 (Ref:3084842)   #60
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I almost forgot ... The IRL continues to give Indy Lights second-class treatment. If you blink you'll miss the report buried among the news headlines. If the IRL won't give Indy Lights a separate section on its website, like Nationwide & Trucks on the NASCAR website, then the teams should go it alone like Star Mazda and USF2000.

BTW who pays the Indy Lights race prizemoney on the box score - the race meeting promoters?

Last edited by Morris Dancer; 4 Jun 2012 at 00:43.
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Old 4 Jun 2012, 02:25 (Ref:3084867)   #61
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Originally Posted by Morris Dancer View Post
I almost forgot ... The IRL continues to give Indy Lights second-class treatment. If you blink you'll miss the report buried among the news headlines. If the IRL won't give Indy Lights a separate section on its website, like Nationwide & Trucks on the NASCAR website, then the teams should go it alone like Star Mazda and USF2000.

BTW who pays the Indy Lights race prizemoney on the box score - the race meeting promoters?
It's a joke right now. The series can't find sponsors if you don't have a website. Sheesh, even the smallest of club racing series in Botswana probably have a website.

I would bet that Firestone funds all of that. The perk of being the title sponsor to a small grid.
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Old 4 Jun 2012, 12:43 (Ref:3085083)   #62
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Eureka! The Road to Indy series now have a place in the IndyCar website "Statistics" section! (It should be simply "Results", but the PR crowd that's made such a botch of the 'new, improved' Indycar website just had to call it something fancier).

The section is still fairly skeletal - Star Mazda and USF2000 only have 2011 race finishing positions and points - but everything should be up to date by, oh, Christmas.
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 14:00 (Ref:3086278)   #63
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IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
Pos
Driver
Nat
Team
Points
R01
R02
R03
R04
R05
R06
R07
R08
R09
R10
R11
R12
1Guerrieri, Esteban
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
205
4035525028       
2Vautier, Tristan
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
193
5340353530       
3Saavedra, Sebastian
AFS Racing /Andretti Autosport
187
3553413028       
4Yacaman, Gustavo
Team Moore Racing
163
2832203350       
5Carbone, Victor
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
154
3030323032       
6Munoz, Carlos
Andretti Autosport
142
1616304040       
7Webb, Oliver
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
130
3217281538       
8Juan Pablo, Garcia
Jeffrey Mark Motorsports
117
2624261922       
9Day, Alon
Belardi Auto Racing
113
1828192424       
10Ebrahim, Armaan
Fan Force United
97
2418181720       
11Ostella, David
Team Moore Racing
90
1522241217       
12Goncalvez, Jorge
Belardi Auto Racing
87
192022188       
13Horto, J.V.
Juncos Racing
69
1726 26        
14Wills, Darryl
Hillenburg Motorsports
54
201915         
15Castaneda, Troy
Bryan Herta Autosport
37
2215          
16Dempsey, Peter
Younessi Racing
35
   1619       
17Younessi, Rodin
Younessi Racing
32
14   18       
18Larrison, Mike
Belardi Auto Racing
22
   22        
19Austin, Chase
Juncos Racing
20
   20        
20Andries, Nick
Tbolt BHA
17
  17         
21Jones, Alex
Brooks Associates Racing
16
0 16         
22Wagner, Brandon
Team E
14
   14        
23Newton-John, Emerson
Fan Force United
13
   13        
24Krohn, Anders
Bryan Herta Autosport
11
   11        
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Old 6 Jun 2012, 16:45 (Ref:3086362)   #64
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http://www.eformulacarnews.com/news_...a52dcc436bb8dc

Ebrahim out at Fan Force united.

Tough to see him exit so early, but unlike Victor Garcia's lose, this is not a big lose for the series. He was simply not getting the results. Hopefully we can get another driver in the car by Milwaukee. Being down to 13 cars is going to be tough at Milwaukee if a replacement isn't found.
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Old 11 Jun 2012, 00:58 (Ref:3088770)   #65
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Fan Force United hired no less than Bryan Clauson for the Indy Lights races at Milwaukee and Iowa. Great news, don't you think?
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Old 11 Jun 2012, 01:58 (Ref:3088782)   #66
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Fan Force United hired no less than Bryan Clauson for the Indy Lights races at Milwaukee and Iowa. Great news, don't you think?
Being how quick he was last season, and how fast he ran until his qualifying crash at Indy, he has speed in these type of cars on an oval.
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 03:28 (Ref:3093908)   #67
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Tristan Vautier won at Milwaukee from the pole, his 2nd race win of the year - he now leads the series...

Standings after Milwaukee...
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 14:49 (Ref:3094128)   #68
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IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
Pos
Driver
Nat
Team
Points
R01
R02
R03
R04
R05
R06
R07
R08
R09
R10
R11
R12
1Vautier, Tristan
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
241
534035303053      
2Guerrieri, Esteban
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
238
403552502635      
3Saavedra, Sebastian
AFS Racing /Andretti Autosport
227
355341302840      
4Carbone, Victor
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
182
303032303228      
5Yacaman, Gustavo
Team Moore Racing
177
283220235024      
6Munoz, Carlos
Andretti Autosport
172
161630404030      
7Webb, Oliver
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
148
321728153818      
8Day, Alon
Belardi Auto Racing
139
182819242426      
9Juan Pablo, Garcia
Jeffrey Mark Motorsports
136
262426192219      
10Ostella, David
Team Moore Racing
122
152224121732      
11Goncalvez, Jorge
Belardi Auto Racing
109
19202218822      
12Ebrahim, Armaan
Fan Force United
97
2418181720       
13Horto, J.V.
Juncos Racing
69
1726 26        
14Wills, Darryl
Hillenburg Motorsports
54
201915         
15Larrison, Mike
Belardi Auto Racing
39
   22 17      
16Castaneda, Troy
Bryan Herta Autosport
37
2215          
17Dempsey, Peter
Younessi Racing
35
   1619       
18Younessi, Rodin
Younessi Racing
32
14   18       
19Austin, Chase
Juncos Racing
20
   20        
20Clauson, Bryan
Fan Force United
20
     20      
21Andries, Nick
Tbolt BHA
17
  17         
22Jones, Alex
Brooks Associates Racing
16
0 16         
23Wagner, Brandon
Team E
14
   14        
24Newton-John, Emerson
Fan Force United
13
   13        
25Krohn, Anders
Bryan Herta Autosport
11
   11        
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 18:22 (Ref:3094268)   #69
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NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!
The Indy Lights championship battle is getting ver tight.

- o -

Round 4 of the Star Mazda is next weekend at Iowa.

Standngs after 3 / 10 rounds:

1. Jack Hawksworth, 129
2. Connor De Phillippi, 117
3. Martin Scuncio, 97
4. Gabriel Chaves, 92
5. Juan Piedrahita, 89
6. Sage Karam, 86
7. Petri Suvanto, 86
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Old 24 Jun 2012, 08:33 (Ref:3097036)   #70
gomick
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gomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Esteban Guerrieri wins at Iowa & now leads the series : Indy Lights Points...

Sage Karam won the Star Mazda race, his 1st win in the series : Star Mazda Points...
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Old 24 Jun 2012, 17:26 (Ref:3097288)   #71
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kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!
IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
Pos
Driver
Nat
Team
Points
R01
R02
R03
R04
R05
R06
R07
R08
R09
R10
R11
R12
1Guerrieri, Esteban
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
289
40355250263551     
2Vautier, Tristan
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
275
53403530305334     
3Saavedra, Sebastian
AFS Racing /Andretti Autosport
244
35534130284017     
4Carbone, Victor
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
217
30303230322835     
5Yacaman, Gustavo
Team Moore Racing
217
28322023502440     
6Munoz, Carlos
Andretti Autosport
198
16163040403026     
7Webb, Oliver
Sam Schmidt Motorsports
166
32172815381818     
8Day, Alon
Belardi Auto Racing
154
18281924242615     
9Juan Pablo, Garcia
Jeffrey Mark Motorsports
152
26242619221916     
10Ostella, David
Team Moore Racing
152
15222412173230     
11Goncalvez, Jorge
Belardi Auto Racing
137
1920221882228     
12Ebrahim, Armaan
Fan Force United
97
2418181720       
13Horto, J.V.
Juncos Racing
69
1726 26        
14Larrison, Mike
Belardi Auto Racing
58
   22 1719     
15Wills, Darryl
Hillenburg Motorsports
54
201915         
16Austin, Chase
Juncos Racing
44
   20  24     
17Clauson, Bryan
Fan Force United
40
     2020     
18Castaneda, Troy
Bryan Herta Autosport
37
2215          
19Dempsey, Peter
Younessi Racing
35
   1619       
20Krohn, Anders
Bryan Herta Autosport
34
   12  22     
21Younessi, Rodin
Younessi Racing
32
14   18       
22Andries, Nick
Tbolt BHA
17
  17         
23Jones, Alex
Brooks Associates Racing
16
0 16         
24Wagner, Brandon
Team E
14
   14        
25Newton-John, Emerson
Fan Force United
13
   13        
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Old 7 Jul 2012, 14:57 (Ref:3103311)   #72
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kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!
Toronto - Qualifying
Pos#DriverNatTeamTimeDifLaps
13Carbone, VictorSam Schmidt Motorsports1:20,228100
211Guerrieri, EstebanSam Schmidt Motorsports1:20,33470,10660
32Yacaman, GustavoTeam Moore Racing1:20,78360,55540
477Vautier, TristanSam Schmidt Motorsports1:20,97630,74810
57Webb, OliverSam Schmidt Motorsports1:21,53151,30330
615Dempsey, PeterYounessi Racing1:21,84661,61840
722Ostella, DavidTeam Moore Racing1:22,01321,7850
827Saavedra, SebastianAFS Racing /Andretti Autosport1:22,38072,15250
94Goncalvez, JorgeBelardi Auto Racing1:23,47113,24290
1076Juan Pablo, GarciaJeffrey Mark Motorsports1:24,44194,21370
1126Munoz, CarlosAndretti Autosport 0:00-80,22820
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Old 7 Jul 2012, 16:24 (Ref:3103350)   #73
W.A Trichlorostyrene
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W.A Trichlorostyrene should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not a very pretty car count.
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Old 7 Jul 2012, 21:13 (Ref:3103501)   #74
kobefly
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kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!kobefly has a real shot at the podium!
Toronto - Race
Pos#DriverNatTeam
12Yacaman, GustavoTeam Moore Racing
227Saavedra, SebastianAFS Racing /Andretti Autosport
33Carbone, VictorSam Schmidt Motorsports
49Day, AlonBelardi Auto Racing
57Webb, OliverSam Schmidt Motorsports
611Guerrieri, EstebanSam Schmidt Motorsports
722Ostella, DavidTeam Moore Racing
876Juan Pablo, GarciaJeffrey Mark Motorsports
94Goncalvez, JorgeBelardi Auto Racing
1026Munoz, CarlosAndretti Autosport
1177Vautier, TristanSam Schmidt Motorsports
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Old 7 Jul 2012, 23:53 (Ref:3103576)   #75
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NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!NaBUru38 is going for a new world record!
That's too short a grid. I can't wait for 2013 and some fresh Star Mazda graduates.

I watched the race start and I can't decide if Guerrieri went too wide or if Vautier went too tight at the exit of turn 1. But he got bumped from behind for sure, and that must have destabilizaed the car.

Indy Lights standings after Toronto:

1. Esteban Guerrieri, 316
2. Tristan Vautier, 295
3. Sebastián Saavedra, 284
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