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1 Jun 2012, 21:41 (Ref:3083539) | #51 | ||
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Therefore if you are looking to make a living as a driver, the irl is not a place you want to aim for, especially considering millions have to be spent getting you there. Not a good return on investment, which is why the irl is filled with wealthy ride buyers instead of quality American talent. In regards to Conor Daly, fast only counts in results on the track, not trackside bench racing BS. You say your friends "knew" they were better, but that doesn't count for anything. I only met Conor once years ago. We were running an event where a skippy race was on the menu also. We got talking to his dad and Conor came over when he wasn't racing to shag cones for us. Seemed like a nice kid, but focused and I felt had the right mindset to succeed for sure. Just the fact he is in GP3 says a lot, as they don't exactly roll out the welcome wagon for Americans in Europe. That is a much more intense environment. indy lights is amateur hour by comparison. My point about creating wealth and then going racing is aimed at those without the resources or connections at a young age. If you are 18 and working a minimum wage job or are in college, you will not be racing open wheel formula cars unless daddy is writing big checks. Even if you save up for a 3 day school at Skippy, well after that what do you do? In my opinion to even get your name recognized at all or get decent start up experience you need at least $100k to get going. Haydenfan is a good example here. I remember when he ran in Skippy. He and dad blew a sizable chunk of change and to what end? Yep there are people that by hook or crook have pulled it off, I've created some great opportunities for myself by just knocking on doors, but I think overall you are better off creating wealth for yourself and then going racing. Again I'm talking to those without rich dads. Zak Brown is a great example. I remember when he was scraping around getting bottom of the barrel rides back in the early 1990's, going nowhere. He started his own motorsport marketing business and turned himself into a major multi millionaire and now he does whatever the hell he wants and has the clout and connections now to seek out alternative funding as well. Very smart guy. |
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1 Jun 2012, 21:55 (Ref:3083546) | #52 | ||
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It's part of the point I'm trying to get at, which is there is more to it when it comes to professional motorsports, than just pure talent. In fact I know of some very talented drivers who sort of did make it, but they were either lazy or abrasive people and their career ran out of gas. One guy I worked with one time was reasonably successful in 1990's, getting paid for a number of years, but his career fizzled and by his own admission it was because he was lazy. Actually Derek Daly put together a nice book about all this, which is probably the first time someone adequately addressed these issues in a printed form. And also at the end of the day, I never give a damn about all those people or what they think. There are always going to be people with a known name or with a rich dad or who are independently wealthy. What is more important is what you want to do and what resources you have to accomplish that goal. And when aiming for a pro career, one must have a business mind about it and consider a return on investment for what you or others are sinking into it. |
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1 Jun 2012, 22:39 (Ref:3083562) | #53 | ||
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Zak Brown is quick too though. Just seems that even when he was starting out money was the same issue all face now, because he can peddle a GT car at his age, better than people 15 years his elder. You look at the amateur classes in the Blancpain Endurance Championship and FIA GT1 (we're getting off topic aren't we mod?), and there are a few really good drivers that seem to be living their dream just a decade or two later than they had wished. But trying to stay a bit on topic. I know Zack Veach hasn't shown on the track that he's anything special, but he has worked his butt off to get into racing. Having a family to spend money doesn't help, but he seems to work to repay some of that cash. He has found sponsors and has written a book (stupid book. Read it, not very useful unless you live that lifestyle that he does.), but that is something that Paul Tracy never did. Come to think of it, getting off topic again, could PT read? I mean he never came across as the brightest guy on the grid. But back to the young drivers. Some of these kids are impressive. A bit robotic, but I'd try to make personal lube sounds like a great product (actually.... oh never mind) if it helped me race. My only sponsor was a local Ford dealership (amounted to a free use of a car for a weekend of my choice, for which I borrowed a Ford GT; they didn't write the contract very well, and what amounted to the costs of driving to the races, flights were what the rich do) and I hawked that place like no other. I sent my overalls to a place to get about 6 logos of the place sewn on. One guy wanted to interview me for some website and asked if my name was that of the dealership. But it helped my racing. Back on topic. Here's the results from the 2 practice sessions today from Detroit (going there Sunday). FP1 was wet and only a couple of a guys went out. 1. Savaadra 2. Vautier 3. Yacaman 4. Guerrieri 5. Dempsey 6. Goncalvez 7. Munoz 8. Garcia 9. Day 10. Carbone 11. Webb (he's a huge disappointment this season) 12. Ostella (running in a TMR/BHA combined entry as his car was beyond quick repair from Indy) 13. Ebrahim (the other big disappointment. No wonder he spent 3 lackluster years in F2. F2!) 14. Younessi (old guy who vaulted a fortune made from a Harley dealership into a racing team.) Yes, only 14 cars. But with Ostella running a joint entry, I am not worried about the grid falling too far down. Still wish for another 5-6 cars as while the top 5-6 are competitive as can be, a extra cars just look better. Even if it was the likes of EuroBrun and Zakspeed, people loved the huge grids found in F1 during the 80's. |
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2 Jun 2012, 01:43 (Ref:3083596) | #54 | ||
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Also drivers need time to develop, doesn't matter how great you are and there again it comes down to money. My issue with this whole "road to indy" is questioning for most of these drivers, especially Americans, if that is the road you want to be on, rather investing instead in racing stock cars, because at least there you can earn some prize money and regional or national sponsors and have a shot at moving up and having a "career". Too many of these drivers, especially the ones that can freely spend, don't look at this as running a business or an investment. If one says "Ok I am going to spend $100K+ to run FF2000 this year", well you need to ask what exactly that is going to do for your career, what you will gain out of it and what your return on investment is. Money is always going to be an issue. It's an expensive sport and that isn't going to change. |
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2 Jun 2012, 11:36 (Ref:3083718) | #55 | |
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HaydenFan, were you in karting? If so, did you feel that your karting career had run it's course?
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2 Jun 2012, 11:38 (Ref:3083719) | #56 | |
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2 Jun 2012, 13:36 (Ref:3083761) | #57 | ||
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Plus, even when I started karts at 14, I was over 5'10, 160ish pounds. I was the biggest kid in any class I raced, and was one of the biggest guys racing at the track. Some said due to my size that I should give sports cars and touring cars a go, but I love single seater racing. I have tested an ARCA car around a road course for a few laps, but I didn't like it. |
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2 Jun 2012, 14:20 (Ref:3083779) | #58 | ||||||
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The costs of running also killed everything. One thing I was listening to was Donald Davidson discussing a guy named King that would copy a year-old Eagle in the '70s and it'd be called a Kingfish. He went there and talked to someone and they said they were expecting more orders that year because the Eagle was expensive that year. The Eagle that year (think he said 1973) was $30000. The Kingfish brand new was $5000. Even accounting for inflation, that's dirt cheap compared to now. It's why I said when designing the car and engine rules they should've made it tubeframes, every county in Indiana has a shop that could weld up a tubeframe. On the engines, I still don't know if you're required to have a manufacturer's badge or not, but going to turbocharging greatly increased the cost of building an engine. I work a lot with turbochargers on engines in my day job, so no one's going to challenge me on this point unless you want me to skewer you. And once you greatly reduce car costs, you reduce the need for teams to have ride buyers. The single worst thing that has happened to the sport of auto racing globally on its highest end is we have divorced the cars and teams away from the financial support the series receive, be it sponsorship and ticket sales and purse money. I was reading on the British F3 thread once and guys there talking about it, and racing can improve financially, you'd still never find guys able to come up with 800k pounds in sponsorship. But the people don't want to reduce car technology even when the series cannot support it and no one buys tickets to watch it, it boggles me. Last edited by Flyin Ryan; 2 Jun 2012 at 14:33. |
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4 Jun 2012, 00:32 (Ref:3084841) | #59 | ||
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Very interesting debate with many well-made points, guys.
Being from Down Under I can't comment with much authority on the USA scene, especially the higher levels, although I must agree that the two drivers mentioned from here don't promote themselves very well. Our culture doesn't take kindly to prople who 'blow their own trumpet', unlike the USA. Also their personalities aren't particularly outgoing. Also many racing drivers, like many other sports stars, don't have great personalities. Marcos Ambrose is different. He copped some resentment locally for 'deserting' V8 Supercars to try his hand at NASCAR, but he's achieved a lot for someone who'd never raced on ovals before. Put simply, success in top level motorsport requires talent, determination and opportunity. Two of the three won't cut it. |
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4 Jun 2012, 00:34 (Ref:3084842) | #60 | ||
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I almost forgot ... The IRL continues to give Indy Lights second-class treatment. If you blink you'll miss the report buried among the news headlines. If the IRL won't give Indy Lights a separate section on its website, like Nationwide & Trucks on the NASCAR website, then the teams should go it alone like Star Mazda and USF2000.
BTW who pays the Indy Lights race prizemoney on the box score - the race meeting promoters? Last edited by Morris Dancer; 4 Jun 2012 at 00:43. |
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4 Jun 2012, 02:25 (Ref:3084867) | #61 | ||
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I would bet that Firestone funds all of that. The perk of being the title sponsor to a small grid. |
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4 Jun 2012, 12:43 (Ref:3085083) | #62 | ||
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Eureka! The Road to Indy series now have a place in the IndyCar website "Statistics" section! (It should be simply "Results", but the PR crowd that's made such a botch of the 'new, improved' Indycar website just had to call it something fancier).
The section is still fairly skeletal - Star Mazda and USF2000 only have 2011 race finishing positions and points - but everything should be up to date by, oh, Christmas. |
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6 Jun 2012, 14:00 (Ref:3086278) | #63 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
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6 Jun 2012, 16:45 (Ref:3086362) | #64 | |
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http://www.eformulacarnews.com/news_...a52dcc436bb8dc
Ebrahim out at Fan Force united. Tough to see him exit so early, but unlike Victor Garcia's lose, this is not a big lose for the series. He was simply not getting the results. Hopefully we can get another driver in the car by Milwaukee. Being down to 13 cars is going to be tough at Milwaukee if a replacement isn't found. |
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11 Jun 2012, 00:58 (Ref:3088770) | #65 | ||
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Fan Force United hired no less than Bryan Clauson for the Indy Lights races at Milwaukee and Iowa. Great news, don't you think?
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11 Jun 2012, 01:58 (Ref:3088782) | #66 | |
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Being how quick he was last season, and how fast he ran until his qualifying crash at Indy, he has speed in these type of cars on an oval.
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18 Jun 2012, 03:28 (Ref:3093908) | #67 | ||
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Tristan Vautier won at Milwaukee from the pole, his 2nd race win of the year - he now leads the series...
Standings after Milwaukee... |
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18 Jun 2012, 14:49 (Ref:3094128) | #68 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
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18 Jun 2012, 18:22 (Ref:3094268) | #69 | ||
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The Indy Lights championship battle is getting ver tight.
- o - Round 4 of the Star Mazda is next weekend at Iowa. Standngs after 3 / 10 rounds: 1. Jack Hawksworth, 129 2. Connor De Phillippi, 117 3. Martin Scuncio, 97 4. Gabriel Chaves, 92 5. Juan Piedrahita, 89 6. Sage Karam, 86 7. Petri Suvanto, 86 |
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24 Jun 2012, 08:33 (Ref:3097036) | #70 | ||
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Esteban Guerrieri wins at Iowa & now leads the series : Indy Lights Points...
Sage Karam won the Star Mazda race, his 1st win in the series : Star Mazda Points... |
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24 Jun 2012, 17:26 (Ref:3097288) | #71 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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IndyLights - Season 2012 - Driver Standings
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7 Jul 2012, 14:57 (Ref:3103311) | #72 | ||
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Toronto - Qualifying
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7 Jul 2012, 16:24 (Ref:3103350) | #73 | |
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Not a very pretty car count.
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7 Jul 2012, 21:13 (Ref:3103501) | #74 | ||
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Toronto - Race
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7 Jul 2012, 23:53 (Ref:3103576) | #75 | ||
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That's too short a grid. I can't wait for 2013 and some fresh Star Mazda graduates.
I watched the race start and I can't decide if Guerrieri went too wide or if Vautier went too tight at the exit of turn 1. But he got bumped from behind for sure, and that must have destabilizaed the car. Indy Lights standings after Toronto: 1. Esteban Guerrieri, 316 2. Tristan Vautier, 295 3. Sebastián Saavedra, 284 |
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