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21 Sep 2009, 11:46 (Ref:2544871) | #51 | |||
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
21 Sep 2009, 14:13 (Ref:2545055) | #52 | |||
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WA ...
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IF, IF V8SC does not run in WA it will have a detrimental effect on the funding of the teams. How long will the team owners cop this? And peck, the new proposed Aussie Rules stadium is no more & they get 30k+ punters to 22 games thru winter, 20 against interstate clubs ... I hope the WASCC get Wanneroo upgraded but 'wise men from the east' are not well received in many quarters in WA & I'd suggest TC retain a local spin doctor if he is to have any chance. |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
21 Sep 2009, 18:45 (Ref:2545316) | #53 | ||
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Personally I love street races and if well run are fantastic events. However permanent circuits also have their place as well. As a driver myself, I wouldn't want to run all year in a concrete canyon. As a fan as well, I wouldn't always want to go to a street circuit. In Australia the street races seem to be heavily dependent on government funding which I believe is an achilles heel that might fail you at some point. I wouldn't fall into the trap of being totally dependent on those events. I've seen the rise and fall of quite a few street circuits in the USA that all ended sometimes for obscure reasons or reasons outside the promoters control. So don't be too quick to torch bridges. |
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Wolverines! |
21 Sep 2009, 21:22 (Ref:2545478) | #54 | |||
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Welcome and sorry...
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Let me consider that for a second...No. |
21 Sep 2009, 21:55 (Ref:2545510) | #55 | ||
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Winton - the year they didn't run the V8's, they actually made more money. If this circuit is more financially viable without them, then they should be concentrating on the other classes. Winton is a great circuit that is booked out every day of the year and makes money. As far as V8's are concerned, it is just too far out of the way to attract a decent crowd to enable the circuit to recoup their costs of staging the round. VESA - No matter what we all think (hey, I am a motorsport purist), the sport is where it is today because of money. An Adelaide or Townsville or (we will see) Homebush is going to attract a much larger crowd than a Phillip Island. More people equals more money. Recouping the sanction fee by the promoter is easier, selling naming rights to an event is easier. Don't forget that the teams only survive through sponsorship. At the end of the day, sponsors will pay according to how many of their potential customers they can 'touch' and the difference they think the sponsorship will make to their bottom line. Bigger crowds and viewing audience, the more reasons teams have to justify the $$$ they are demanding. I also prefer to watch permenant circuits, but street races work because they can be placed in an existing large population, near public transport and easy access for corporate guests. PI is a fantastic circuit. Problem is, it is located 150km from Melbourne - hence the low crowd a week or so ago. Anyone that was there will say the event didn't have a lot of 'atmosphere'. What rounds are staged as an 'event' or 'festival'? Darwin, Adelaide, Townsville, Hamilton, Indy. No coincidence that these are also the best attended events and the ones most people would like to go to (Except of course Bathurst, but that race speaks for itself!). |
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21 Sep 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2545514) | #56 | ||
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At the end of the day, it's our passion for motorsport that has made all levels of motorsport in this country a success and that is what has made some great reading here! |
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22 Sep 2009, 02:57 (Ref:2545638) | #57 | ||
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But Winton is 200km from Melbourne and draws a larger crowd and has an atmosphere similar to Bathurst.
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22 Sep 2009, 03:10 (Ref:2545645) | #58 | |||
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22 Sep 2009, 03:38 (Ref:2545653) | #59 | |
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Geees I nearly choked on that one . . . having been to both numberous times, there is nothing about Winton that puts it in the same category at Bathurst . . . well maybe the weather sometimes.
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Smith & Weston - the original point and click interface. |
22 Sep 2009, 04:22 (Ref:2545668) | #60 | ||
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However I think they are fools if they put all their eggs in that basket. The recent era of "new" street circuits started in 1975 here in the USA with the Long Beach GP and since there have been many others, some successful, some definitely not. The problem with street circuits is that you are subject to a whole litany of issues of costs and government involvement and also that of the local citizens. So if I was V8SC I wouldn't be too quick to tar and feather permanent circuits. |
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Wolverines! |
22 Sep 2009, 06:00 (Ref:2545690) | #61 | |
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I wouldn't mind so much if some money was spent on the paying punters.
Everytime they spend some money on a circuit it is spent on pit facilities and corporate areas whilst Joe Average sits on the dirt on the hill, uses crappy toilets and has to eat expensive sh_t food. |
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22 Sep 2009, 06:36 (Ref:2545697) | #62 | |
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I don't think we will see too many more street circuits for the series anyway.
Qld has 2, Hidden Valley is a stones throw from the CBD, NSW have one, South Australia has on, Victoria has the Grand prix. Perth would be the last one if the government ever supported it... Toby, fully agree with you. Every year you go to Symmonds Plains, they rave on about the money they have spent on upgrades but the paying customer doesn't see it. They want Qld raceway to spend money on the circuit - imagine this is for permenant pit's which won't increase the spectacle or comfort (or lack there of) for the spectators. Anyone there this year who tried to get out of the sun? |
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22 Sep 2009, 07:54 (Ref:2545737) | #63 | |||
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Yes you are right Winton is booked out solidly most of the year, as are most of the permenant tracks in Australia. As far as the crowds are concerned you are way off mark, yes the crowds were down this year, but all tracks had a downword spiral, something to do with the GFC (and that ain't the Geelong Footabal Club). As a matter of fact Winton traditionally has the largest or equal largest crowds of any of the PERMENANT tracks, so best get you facts right on this one. Check your PM's. |
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
22 Sep 2009, 09:32 (Ref:2545788) | #64 | |||
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Nothing can match Bathurst because, well, Bathurst is Bathurst (I'm a 10 year veteran of the Mount by the way). By atmosphere I'm talking about the heartland fan who camps for the entire event on site and all that which VE$A has tried to emulate at PI by organising the campground for the first time. |
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22 Sep 2009, 12:27 (Ref:2545935) | #65 | ||
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Is it not VESA who are up in arms about the pits at both Qld Raceway and Waneroo? They want the money to be spent here before the spectators not the track owners.
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
22 Sep 2009, 22:00 (Ref:2546309) | #66 | ||
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Fix the pits
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And the tracks want the focus on spectator upgrades? Like the fantastic ARDC spectator upgrades at the Creek???? The tracks, as you (and a couple of "Tontos") have pointed out numerous times, are booked solid all year and making terrific profits without Supercars. So how much of these profits are being spent back on the "bread and butter racer" that is the sports backbone?? What facility upgrades and improvements are being carried out by the apparently faultless track owners and managers? Considering Supercars are a once a year "highlight" and not the life line and financial provider the weekly racer is, why are they not looked after by the tracks? Old mate JT has not spent a $ on QR since he took over? Talk about "banging on",Glass houses and rocks and stuff... |
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Let me consider that for a second...No. |
22 Sep 2009, 23:53 (Ref:2546335) | #67 | ||
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Probably I am spoiled by too many of the tracks I visit in America for work, where whether you are at the bottom or the top of the ladder you are treated as a guest and welcomed. Toilets are clean, food service is good, the pit and paddock is clean and kept up, etc. Paint and some toilet cleaner don't cost that much folks. People will argue the point but I think by making some basic investments in certain areas, the tracks can realize more revenue. As a racer I don't like going to places that are a dump with the track falling apart and the paddock being a mess. And as a fan I don't like going to tracks that have no place to sit, crap food and overflowing toilets. If I feel that way, I'm sure others do as well and in many cases take their money elsewhere. |
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Wolverines! |
23 Sep 2009, 06:21 (Ref:2546396) | #68 | |||
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He doesn't own the and while street circuits are recieving regular Government handouts where is the incentive to dip into his own pocket? |
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
23 Sep 2009, 06:55 (Ref:2546419) | #69 | |
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23 Sep 2009, 07:41 (Ref:2546439) | #70 | |||
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JT has been putting some money, and quite a bit of it into Lakeside Park to get it into a workable condition, racetrack actually for the bottom end of town rather than the top end, although he's getting as many volunteers to help with the rehabilitation as possible there has still been a substantial investment. Like QR, Lakeside is leased by Queensland Raceways, in this instance from the Moreton Bay Regional Council. They've had some investment in Lakeside from Queensland Motorways. They've built a huge gantry over the front straight festooned with cameras and sensors, testing QMs technology for free-flow toll roads and also for speed camera monitoring similar to New South Wales where cameras take photos at strategic points along the major routes to see if you've travelled faster than 100/110 kph over long distances and checking your number plate for where to send the ticket. Queensland Raceways may own significant portions of infrastructure at both venues, but not the venues themselves. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
23 Sep 2009, 07:47 (Ref:2546446) | #71 | ||
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US$175 million to run F1 in Canada.....
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
23 Sep 2009, 08:07 (Ref:2546455) | #72 | |||
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And the payoff for the investor is in 25 years from commencement, close the circuit, sell the land off as housing/industrial development, and at that point, realise the profit from owning the venture What companies in this day and age have a 25 year time horizon for any investment? If you think about it, the demise of Amaroo Park and of Oran Park ended up with similar outcomes, even if they commenced with different intentions... |
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
23 Sep 2009, 08:25 (Ref:2546460) | #73 | |||
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Also helps when dealing with various government groups if you can quote an appearence by the high profile V8 circus to get things organised. |
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23 Sep 2009, 08:58 (Ref:2546475) | #74 | |||
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Things like:
and so on and so forth, I don't think I need to go on. Just remember most of the money spent is to keep Cochrane et el happy and it is Club Members money. So go and take your dirty swipes somewhere else. |
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
23 Sep 2009, 09:33 (Ref:2546496) | #75 | |
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So what you are saying Trev is we should thank TC for all those wonderful improvements Winton has made and the Ronke's are only doing it because they want to make him happy and not because they want to improve things for their members competitors and spectators.
In thats case im glad TC is here to make things happen, or we would still be stuck with that nasty old out dated Winton |
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