End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[Mixer]

It is just really stupid, there is actually nothing wrong with the car - it should have just never been a Commodore.

The Insignia, especially in Wagon form, is a competitive vehicle in the segment, but attaching the Commodore name plate to it I think created unrealistic expectations.

The sale of Opel outside of GM was also very awkward timing.

[Casper]

I have always thought this would be the end result and I have asked before if SC had a business plan when it happened. This news must have been released without telling SC because they did not have a media response and still haven't put anything out. Bad planning seems to be the order of the day. How many dollars just went down the chute? Panic Central might apply here me thinks. How supposedly clever people have arrived at this cul de sac beats me when everyone on this forum knew that the end was nigh.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It is just really stupid, there is actually nothing wrong with the car - it should have just never been a Commodore.

The Insignia, especially in Wagon form, is a competitive vehicle in the segment, but attaching the Commodore name plate to it I think created unrealistic expectations.

The sale of Opel outside of GM was also very awkward timing.

Yes, all of this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the cars, in fact they are pretty good but a new brand surrounding them might have been a better approach.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Casper

Yes, all of this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the cars, in fact they are pretty good but a new brand surrounding them might have been a better approach.

Agreed.

Had this friendly argument with a good friend (and Holden employee) on many occasions over the last year or two.

[Driver TBA]

Would it have sold better or worse if it was badged a Holden Insignia?

Would it have been axed if it wasn't expected to be the face of the brand.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[mayhem]

I was told by a Holden dealer that they were very close to dropping the Holden name altogether when local production ceased. Apparently dealers were divided about whether to do it or not.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I was told by a Holden dealer that they were very close to dropping the Holden name altogether when local production ceased. Apparently dealers were divided about whether to do it or not.

If they had gone Chevrolet it would have been worse, as GM has progressively exited the RHD market. I just don't know where to now. Dumb trucks are profitable, and Nissan survived this kind of change, but Holden will be a shadow of its former self.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Holden will be a shadow of its former self.

Sadly, they already are. (As are Ford in regular car terms)

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by xrystl

Holden don't import the Camaro, not made in RHD and Walkinshaw did look at it but it wouldn't fit and couldn't be massaged to fit in the current configuration.

Maybe it's time for a new platform that will fit both the Mustang and Camaro?

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Maybe it's time for a new platform that will fit both the Mustang and Camaro?

Or maybe move to a platform that's not held to ransom by the increasingly dynamic car industry?

Move to Mustang/Camaro and in 5 years the Speedcafe article will titled "should Supercars adopt Electric motors to stay relevant to their on road counterparts?"

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Would it have sold better or worse if it was badged a Holden Insignia?

Would it have been axed if it wasn't expected to be the face of the brand.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Holden did sell the Insignia, alongside the VFII Commodore, in it's previous incarnation.

Nobody bought it back then either.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Maybe it's time for a new platform that will fit both the Mustang and Camaro?

That; plus make it favourable for any manufacturer to join.

Unfortunately none are really interested, as they'd only have to look at how any non-Holden product has been treated over the years, and this year in particular

Commodore disappearing, and inevitably Holden as well; should provide the perfect opportunity for Supercars to develop a much better formula.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Maybe it's time for a new platform that will fit both the Mustang and Camaro?

Already exists.

Why reinvent the wheel?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by chavez

Already exists.

Why reinvent the wheel?

Well for a start, the rollcage height doesn't suit two door models.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Forda

Well for a start, the rollcage height doesn't suit two door models.

Not Supercars.

TA2.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by chavez

Already exists.

Why reinvent the wheel?

True and that's a great idea but I'm not a fan of the single engine.

http://ta2racingaustralia.com/

[Forda]

Originally Posted by bluesport

True and that's a great idea but I'm not a fan of the single engine.

http://ta2racingaustralia.com/

Not a fan of that either, nor the even closer resemblance to NASCAR (than Supercars has).

The whole concept of a touring car needs to be considered carefully going forward.

[thunderbolt]

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...cars-in-the-us
Buick Throws in the Towel on Cars in the US
will GM have any car that could run in supercars ? Astra

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-gm...-idUKKBN1YE2U7

[chavez]

Originally Posted by bluesport

True and that's a great idea but I'm not a fan of the single engine.

http://ta2racingaustralia.com/

Once upon engine technology and brand differentiation was important but with engine development curtailed why not go to a single engine?

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by mayhem

I was told by a Holden dealer that they were very close to dropping the Holden name altogether when local production ceased. Apparently dealers were divided about whether to do it or not.

Maybe they should have !
The Holden name now basically represents the past, not current or future for the purists

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by chavez

Once upon engine technology and brand differentiation was important but with engine development curtailed why not go to a single engine?

I just think that if the category was to become our premier category then every marque should have it's own engine.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I just think that if the category was to become our premier category then every marque should have it's own engine.

TA2 runs like that in the USA I believe - each Marque uses engines from that Marque with some kind of equalisation program.

Not sure that a TA2 style car is the answer but if we look to the USA for something suitable, maybe this could be the answer?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Not sure that a TA2 style car is the answer but if we look to the USA for something suitable, maybe this could be the answer?

Replace Supercars with NASCAR?

No thanks.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Forda

Replace Supercars with NASCAR?

No thanks.

And broadly speaking how far removed are Supercars from a stock car?

The development and evolution of the Supercar from 1992 to present day mirrors to some degree the development and evolution of the stock car from the 1950's to the 1980's.

I can highly recommend Dr John Craft's book on the topic of Stock Car development.

I'd love to see a similar book on Supercars but guess the market for Supercar books is more geared towards picture books than narrative and analysis.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

TA2 runs like that in the USA I believe - each Marque uses engines from that Marque with some kind of equalisation program.

And guess what, nobody is happy because of parity between the engines....