End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[AussieTimmeh]

It's a shame Holden didn't start selling Chev badges in dealerships. Based on their popularity from what I see on the road, it would have seen them through the next global financial crisis.

On a serious note, although I am not a Holden person, I am an Australian and I feel for the 500 other Australians who now need to find jobs elsewhere. Not a good situation.

[Juarez Jed]

It's a shame that the jobs are going before the Chevrolet SS even hits the showrooms in the US. It may only be a niche vehicle in the States but it's a bloody big market. Obviously no plans for many sales there.
Unfortunately the job losses will be more around the 1200 mark when you factor in the component suppliers.
Ford copped criticism for sticking to the one platform but Holden has only seen a few years of joy from adding the Cruze to the local manufacturing line-up.
I think the strong Aussie dollar has just made local manufacturing impossible, import cars are just too cheap in comparison for both the consumer and manufacturers like GM who can source cars from Asia .

[craig1]

Not good that anyone looses their job but you can't help but wonder how many of them went out to the car park and didn't get into a Holden.

[xrystl]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

It's a shame that the jobs are going before the Chevrolet SS even hits the showrooms in the US. It may only be a niche vehicle in the States but it's a bloody big market. Obviously no plans for many sales there.
.

From what I have read over the past 12 months or so , Holden are loosing big $$$ on everything they send to the USA because of the high dollar and the fact that the vehicles they send over have to meet the market price that they are intended for , and this includes the Police vehicles so things aren't too rosy on the export side of things , the Yanks aren't buying SS type of vehicles either , they are still buying the RVs and SUVs (like over here) and to sell the SS for what it really owes it would be competing with the BMW M3 and M5 and assorted AMG Merc's .
Sadly things really don't look too good .

[Oldtony]

For most of the Australian community we won't see any improvement in our life style or living standard until we see the end of the current MINING DISASTER
It might be a boom for about 5% of the population but it is a disaster for the rest of us.
Please wack them with a B****dy great tax to get the economy and the defecit under control in the one move.
If the A$ was back to about 90c US we would have some hope of making Australia competitive again. And that goes for Tourism, agriculture and service industries as well as manufacturing.

[TWRv12]

Former Ford executive Jac Nasser says we don't care about our car industry
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226618613641

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Former Ford executive Jac Nasser says we don't care about our car industry
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226618613641

Not sure that is really what he said there.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Former Ford executive Jac Nasser says we don't care about our car industry
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226618613641

Our car industry?........I thought Ford and holden were American owned.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Our car industry?........I thought Ford and holden were American owned.

Australian workers mate. I really feel for them but unfortunately I think Jac's right. Dollar too high means too expensive to export, and imports much cheaper. Even if they did make the small cars locally (eg: focus), I can't see they would be cheaper than they now cost, so sales would be worse if anything.

Made in Australia doesn't mean a thing the most people now ( ok I'm guilty too - my last purchase was Korean- simple economics unfortunately).

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Gaz170

Australian workers mate. I really feel for them but unfortunately I think Jac's right. Dollar too high means too expensive to export, and imports much cheaper. Even if they did make the small cars locally (eg: focus), I can't see they would be cheaper than they now cost, so sales would be worse if anything.

Made in Australia doesn't mean a thing the most people now ( ok I'm guilty too - my last purchase was Korean- simple economics unfortunately).

Australian workers, but it is American companies, subsidised by the tax payer, manufacturing in Australia and sending the profits back to America.

[Marcos WTF]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Australian workers, but it is American companies, subsidised by the tax payer, manufacturing in Australia and sending the profits back to America.

You're forgetting the appliance maker at Altona. They're on the teat as
much as frod & Holden are.

I don't know the answer, but we need some kind of manufacturing capicity in this country. It's getting to a point where we'll be lucky to make anything in this country.

Going back to a bygone era, the HQ Holden was something like 99 % local content. No other car maker came close to that record. We'll never see that era again.

What does annoy me is that too many government vehicles are fully imported. Were it up to me, the gov't would only buy vehicles from vehicle makers that had assembly operations in Australia. Any ideally only models assembled in Australia- as far as possible.

I'd also like to see tax breaks for companies that bought Australian.

Yes, that limits the the choice to Holden, frod & the above mentioned
appliance maker, but between the 3 makers, they've got the market covered pretty much.

[xrystl]

[QUOTE=Marcos WTF;3233168]

I don't know the answer, but we need some kind of manufacturing capicity in this country. It's getting to a point where we'll be lucky to make anything in this country.

Going back to a bygone era, the HQ Holden was something like 99 % local content. No other car maker came close to that record. We'll never see that era again.

QUOTE] I saw an analysis on the subject of local manufacture not long ago and it worked out that the Falcon and Commodore would cost at least 60% more with all local content used in there construction .
Toyota has huge (by our standards) exports and their local content is more than the Ford and Holden products, even most Taxi's I see now are either the Toyota Prius or the People mover type (best idea ever for cabs) Toyota's and Hyundai's .
I hail from an era when most everything was Australian made , now to shop for Australian you end up with an empty shopping trolley.

[Marcos WTF]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Former Ford executive Jac Nasser says we don't care about our car industry
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226618613641

No, I don't care about the fate ofappliance makers impersonating car makers.

[GTRMagic]

If you believe the stories, Toyota is said to be losing somewhere in the region of $3,500 per car for every vehicle exported.

The logic of this is interesting.. there is a school of thought to suggest that the way to maintain an export market, is to sell cars.. regardless of the position of the exchange rate. The consumer buys them for what they believe is a fair price, and the demand pipeline continues.

The underlying premise here is that the forex rates come back to them, which should have happened by now, but hasnt.

Why this is interesting is that other car makers, some associated with Toyota, are said to sell cars into their export market in similar ways. Working along the lines of calculating an RRP, stripping out taxes, stripping out the likes of agreed retailer margins, agreed distributor margins, taking into account forex variation, plus or minus various other factors, then calculating the landed cost in the retailing country, independent of the cost to produce & transport.

This is basically the antithesis of the ATO's Transfer Pricing theory, whereby in this case, the profit is actually maintained in the retailing market, and the manufacturing country wears the financial risk of the forex changes.

The Japanese always did play a longer game than most...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If you believe the stories, Toyota is said to be losing somewhere in the region of $3,500 per car for every vehicle exported.

This is utter tosh, and is only a result of transfer pricing to push the profits up to the parent company and there on to a tax haven.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

This is utter tosh, and is only a result of transfer pricing to push the profits up to the parent company and there on to a tax haven.

You might be surprised... it is likely that Holden is making no margin on the cars it sells overseas too... but is generating factory recoveries, giving the plant, and its suppliers, some level of viability and pricing to keep the show on the road.. so to speak..

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

You might be surprised... it is likely that Holden is making no margin on the cars it sells overseas too... but is generating factory recoveries, giving the plant, and its suppliers, some level of viability and pricing to keep the show on the road.. so to speak..

This is Toyota we are talking about, they invented transfer pricing, if it wasn't profitable they make plenty of Camrys in other places.

Holden are kinda a different animal really.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

This is Toyota we are talking about, they invented transfer pricing, if it wasn't profitable they make plenty of Camrys in other places.

Holden are kinda a different animal really.

I do agree with you, but having seen some stuff with other suppliers in that industry, its amazing that anyone makes money from the paper shuffle.

For a viable export-driven motor industry, the exchange rate needs to be back at 70c or below... it will drive up the cost of imports, and lower the cost of exports...

[Just Do It!]

The great challenge would have to be why Holden needs the Government of 'Stralia to make their business viable? Didn't the Government of 'Stralia give a big hand-out to Mitsubishi only to reach a premature end?

The main question would be are the unions making conditions so difficult for manufacturers in 'Stralia that the manufacturers have to ask for government handouts to pay their workers? If that's the case, it really is one big money-go-round.

[Gaz170]

Not the unions, just the high (read realistic) wages paid here as opposed to overseas (including USA - where car workers are paid little over the poverty line) coupled to the high Aussie dollar making imports cheaper and exports more expensive, we haven't got a hope.

If we want a car industry, we need to dollar to be about 60 cents US to make it viable.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

The great challenge would have to be why Holden needs the Government of 'Stralia to make their business viable? Didn't the Government of 'Stralia give a big hand-out to Mitsubishi only to reach a premature end?

The main question would be are the unions making conditions so difficult for manufacturers in 'Stralia that the manufacturers have to ask for government handouts to pay their workers? If that's the case, it really is one big money-go-round.

I understand the criticism of the Australian government for support of our car manufacturing, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Certainly other governments support their MV industries in various ways.

The US car market is about 13 times the size of ours - but support by the US govt has been/will be 50 times that of the Aust govt according to this comment.

I wondered about Germany, and yes, they get into it too.

Certainly Thailand has been up front with government support enticing component manufacturers; and China is up there with trying to attract manufacturers worldwide.

Job wise, I've already been a victim of this downsizing once, and in the next job I have now been on a 4 day week for nearly 12 months. It's a worry!

[GTRMagic]

I was fortunate enough recently to help someone I know search for a family car to replaced a much loved but now written off due to hail Mitsubishi Magna.

They wanted another Magna, having owned theirs since I sold my TL AWD 3.5 V6 to them when it was 2 years old and 20-something thousand km on the clock.

I was lured by a volume German brand which I won’t ever do again.

A quick search of CarSales saw few Magnas for sale, AWD or not, in good condition, or with less than telephone number kilometres.

So I took a peek at a 380. Found the unicorn, super low kilometre pensioner owned car that had been sitting at a dealer for a while unsold. My friend and I took a train trip to a regional centre to take a look.

One test drive for me reminded me why losing the local car industry is just horrible.

The 380 was nicely balanced, strong engine, sweet gearshift, great ride for a 10 year old car. Stopped, steered & went like a brand new one. My friend bought it on the spot, even if it was an odd factory gold colour. With a dealer service history.

It was a good financial deal, for a great car. Driven home that day. Fits all the stuff inside a family of 2 boys & parents need.

And yet the next time I help replace their car, there probably won’t be a 380 laying around, looking for a new owner with that kind of low usage patina.

Or a Commodore or Falcon of similar or newer vintage for that matter.

Something died the day Mitsubishi stopped building the 380. And the day Ford stopped building the Falcon & Territory. And the day Holden stopped building the Commodore. And the day Toyota stopped building the Camry and Aurion. And Nissan too when you think about it.

These are family cars for family adventures. A connection with a brand, whichever one it was, that told us they were here, for us, to help create our crazy childhoods.

Now we seem to have to get warmed up to the automotive equivalent of a refrigerator purchase. Feature packed probably, comfortable maybe, but without the soul and resonance of what has gone on before.

Nissan stopped making cars here, and with the current model line up are almost an irrelevance here. Mitsubishi not far behind. Is this the destiny for Ford, Holden & Toyota, to play out in the first 10 or so years post-cessation?

I hope not.

[Umai Naa]

The 380 is a massively underrated car.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

......Now we seem to have to get warmed up to the automotive equivalent of a refrigerator purchase. Feature packed probably, comfortable maybe, but without the soul and resonance of what has gone on before.......

That's the way I feel about my Kia. Nice car, but no emotion to it. Just a means to get to and from the office. The wife's Honda Odessy is just a glamorous bus for family trips.

The thing that annoys me is that years ago I went to a dealer seriously looking to purchase a Territory and they couldn't be bothered to let me even have a test drive. Ended up buying a Toyota in the end.

[ForumNick]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I was fortunate enough recently to help someone I know search for a family car to replaced a much loved but now written off due to hail Mitsubishi Magna.

They wanted another Magna, having owned theirs since I sold my TL AWD 3.5 V6 to them when it was 2 years old and 20-something thousand km on the clock.

I was lured by a volume German brand which I won’t ever do again.

A quick search of CarSales saw few Magnas for sale, AWD or not, in good condition, or with less than telephone number kilometres.

So I took a peek at a 380. Found the unicorn, super low kilometre pensioner owned car that had been sitting at a dealer for a while unsold. My friend and I took a train trip to a regional centre to take a look.

One test drive for me reminded me why losing the local car industry is just horrible.

The 380 was nicely balanced, strong engine, sweet gearshift, great ride for a 10 year old car. Stopped, steered & went like a brand new one. My friend bought it on the spot, even if it was an odd factory gold colour. With a dealer service history.

It was a good financial deal, for a great car. Driven home that day. Fits all the stuff inside a family of 2 boys & parents need.

And yet the next time I help replace their car, there probably won’t be a 380 laying around, looking for a new owner with that kind of low usage patina.

Or a Commodore or Falcon of similar or newer vintage for that matter.

Something died the day Mitsubishi stopped building the 380. And the day Ford stopped building the Falcon & Territory. And the day Holden stopped building the Commodore. And the day Toyota stopped building the Camry and Aurion. And Nissan too when you think about it.

These are family cars for family adventures. A connection with a brand, whichever one it was, that told us they were here, for us, to help create our crazy childhoods.

Now we seem to have to get warmed up to the automotive equivalent of a refrigerator purchase. Feature packed probably, comfortable maybe, but without the soul and resonance of what has gone on before.

Nissan stopped making cars here, and with the current model line up are almost an irrelevance here. Mitsubishi not far behind. Is this the destiny for Ford, Holden & Toyota, to play out in the first 10 or so years post-cessation?

I hope not.

POST OF THE YEAR !!!