How fast are the teams?

[Wrex]

How would you rank each team for pace after Melbourne?

1. Ferrari

2. Williams
3. Renault

4. BAR/McLaren

6. Jaguar

7. Sauber/Toyota

9. Jordan
10. Minardi


Impressive : Ferrari, Renault, BAR and Jaguar

Disgraceful : Mclaren, Sauber & Toyota

[Snrub]

I like your order. Worth mentioning, BAR, McLaren, Jaguar are VERY close. Renault is a tad bit faster, but still very close and I think there's a bit of a gap between Renault and Williams. I think Toyota was slower than Sauber. Neither team has any excuse, the Sauber should be as fast as a F2003 with a F2004 drivetrain. Toyota seems to have gone backwards, how is that possible?

[jetsetter]

After Melbourne i'd have Jaguar ahead of McLaren for pace, i wasn't expecting much from Webber at Albert Park after Jaguar's ordinary pre season testing but the pace from the Jaguar suprised me.

[flor]

i think toyota isn't as fast as sauber, even heidfeld with his jordan was faster

[Snrub]

Kimi had pretty decent pace before his engine went.

In truth McLaren was 3 secs a lap faster than Ferrari. They were sandbagging.

[grumpy1]

snrub you have got to pulling my leg
I think the list is ok but on form from the AGP Toyota have built a dud.Gascoyne should scrap it and start again

The Grumpy1

[Snrub]

Toyota should pay Ferrari for what Sauber has and a bit extra. Seriously.

Whenever a team is slow in 2004 they're simply sandbagging for shock value. If we are to believe half of the forum members as of only last thursday this has to be true. Toyota will spend $400M this year. Their masterplan is to bide their time and finish 11th at Suzuka. The shock value will be their ultimate triumph and send car buyers flocking to Toyota dealerships.

[bosch!]

Pretty much so, but I would ammend thus:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Ferrari

2. Renault
3. Williams
4. BAR

5. McLaren

6. Jaguar

7. Sauber/Toyota

9. Jordan

10. Minardi


Impressive : Ferrari, Renault, BAR and Jaguar

Disgraceful : Mclaren, Sauber

Pityfull : Toyota ($400m??????)

To be expected (cant compete without cash) : Jordan, Minadi

[The Lounge King]

On Toyota, I think they will continue last years form of being quick at some tracks, and average at the others.

I thought Sauber would have been a bit quicker though.

[Gt_R]

Anyway, who designed the Toyota? The ex-Minardi guy? We've heard in their first year that they had purposely designed a conservative car to first build up reliability...then the 2nd year, we hear the same thing that the dull design is due to a conservative approach to reduce the number of variables that could go wrong...that after that they would go more radical..

But now into this new year, again we see a conservative car that copied ideas from every other team. And worse still, it's one slow car. Given the budget they have, and an engine which is pretty good, the car is nothing short of a disgrace.

I don't expect them to immediately challenge the top 3, but at least, stay with the BARs.

[Redblurr]

The F2004 has broken every track record it has appeared on Mugello, Fiorano, Imola and Melbourne. Michael Schumacher lapped many cars and eased off once behind JPM, this was probably a wise move by Ferrari given the furore it would have caused Formula One.
So Ferrari Super Fast.

2. Renault
3. Williams

4. BAR
5.McLaren

6. Jaguar
7. Sauber

8Toyota

9. Jordan
10. Minardi

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Snrub
Renault is a tad bit faster, but still very close and I think there's a bit of a gap between Renault and Williams.

Yup. I think is very dificult to judge Williams's pace and compare with Renault.

If Montoya didnt went off track in first corner and losing four places, we will had better view to evaluate FW26's pace to compare with Renault.

For instance, is true Ralf fail to fight Alonso, but Juan Pablo succeed to follow Truly and overtake him.

[Armco Bender]

1. Ferrari












Then count for 60 seconds








10. Williams Renault BAR McLaren Jaguar Sauber Toyota Jordan Minardi

[Led ZeppF1]

Errrr, the gap between Ferrari/Schumacher and Renault/Alonso just 34,673 second.

[Armco Bender]

Yeah only because he drove the last laps in first gear,he was out to over 50 seconds before he started doing that.

[climb]

Agree with Redblurr, of course saying that Renault be ahead of Williams is based on a bare observation of AGP results.
Whether it keep true during the season or not it is a very interesting topic to survey.
Actually, a change in the top hierarchy is of prime concern.
Ultimately it ha s to be noticed that substancially armco has a point, cos the gap between ferrari and the rest of the pack is bigger than gaps within the pack itself (excluding of course Jordan and Minardi)

[DNQ]

Ferrari 10/10 - As much as I despite this Italian team, they made everyone else look like they don't belong in the same championship. Total class of their own, never challanged at any stage, perfect reliability, clock-work pitstops, very few errors from the drivers. Absolute annihilation of the opposition. Doesn't bode well for the competitiveness of the rest of the season. Based on their form at Albert Park, they may well win more than a dozen races.

McLaren 1/10 - Over a year of developments, Michelin tyres, great drivers, Mercedes motors and yet the MP4/19 package absolutely stinks. The car handled like a skateboard all weekend. Reliability was terrible, the car showed very little race pace. Of course, they will doubtless improve - and they will more than likely win a race this season once they get the car sorted out, but Albert Park 2004 is perhaps the blackest spot in the team's history.

Williams 6/10 - Montoya drove very well, and if he hadn't overcooked it at T1, might have grabbed a podium. Ralf was his usual dull self. Williams were soundly beaten y'day, but unlike McLaren, weren't humiliated. The car was solid, if not outrageously fast, and considering it's a fairly radical design, the best is definantly yet to come. Probably the only team on hte grid that looks able to challenge for the championship at all. Hot weather in Bahrain and Malaysia should help them.

Renault 7/10 - Very good out of the box, and the only team besides Ferrari who should have left Albert Park feeling satisfied. The traction control and electronics appear to be the best out there, as judged by Alonso's start. They won't win any championships, but they'll challenging for wins at Monaco, Barcelona and at the Hungaroring.

Sauber 3/10 - Hopeless. Two very good drivers, F2003-GA clone and lots of Ferrari bits and they didn't even score a point. Very disappointing effort, it seems Sauber have slipped back into their classic "do we even exist" mode.

BAR 6/10 - Proof they've actually made leaps and bounds and that their testing pace wasn't a fluke. A second row start for Button and three points in the bag is a good start, BAR should have no problems securing fifth in the WCC.

Jaguar 5/10 - They got Klein home, but Webber wasn't so lucky. At the very worst they appear to have kept their pace from 2003, and at best they will battle for fifth in the WCC. Webber showed in qualifying the car is quick.

Toyota 2/10 - Really, third season of F1, biggest budget in the sport, and they've basically made absolutely no progress since their '02 AGP debut. The team was inconspicious all weekend and never really did anything. Proof it takes more than raw money to win.

Jordan 5/10 - Budget considered, Jordan didn't do too bad a job. Heidfeld showed well, and the Jordan team definantly have not slipped from last year. Of course, they only finished 9th last year, but they will definantly defeat Minardi again in '04, and may even match it with the Sauber's and Toyota's on occasion.

Minardi 4/10 - Not alot to say really. Mediocre performances by mediocre drivers, two DNFs and nothing to really comment on. Same old, same old.

[MRJUCY]

I'd put Jaguar ahead of McLaren * just behind BAR based on this weekend alone but I'm sure it won't be too long before McLaren leapfrog them both.

[Led ZeppF1]

Very good review, DNQ.

(Your ID is no mean did not qualified, isn't it? )

[Led ZeppF1]

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Yeah only because he drove the last laps in first gear,he was out to over 50 seconds before he started doing that.

I know, I know, if Michael didn't back off maybe only Alonso who didn't overlapped. And Rubens, of course.

I just don't think, or didn't want to believe, the gap was so big.

Because, if Montoya did'nt screw up his start he has chance to fight, at least third position, and close the gap with Ferrari.

Yeah, its just IF, and IF. So I will wait until one or two race again to conclude how big the gap actually.

[BootsOntheSide]

You can't draw too many conclusions aout how far ahead Ferrari are from just one track, especially as it suits them so much. But, my guess would be:

Ferrari
gap
Williams
Renault
gap
BAR
gap
McLaren
Jaguar
gap
Sauber
gap
Toyota
Jordan
massive gap
Minardi

[bosch!]

We all seem to agree that 2-3-4 in thechampionship is going to be close, personally im not sure i can get that excited about silver and bronze when the gold medal is only ever going to go to ferrari. No cant stand 2002 all over again

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by DNQ
McLaren 1/10 - Albert Park 2004 is perhaps the blackest spot in the team's history.

It isn't.

Not by a long way.

[Smokey 6 litre]

i think at the moment McLaren are behind BAR and about evens with Jag, although as the season goes on they will move away from Jag but not catch BAR.

[Don K]

Ferrari seems to be doing all right under these circumstances.

We don't know how fast Williams would have been if their drivers wouldn't have made mistakes.

It looks as if McLaren aren't quite ready for the season yet.
So we don't know how fast they will be.

Either Renault is coming close to the top, or Alonso is developing into a top driver very fast.

We had one of the BAR's in front of the McLarens, and one of them way behind.
So we don't know yet how they are doing (as we don't know where McLaren stands).

As Webber didn't complete the race, there's no way of knowing whether the Jaguar is any good over a full race distance this year.

The Sauber seems to be faster than the Jordan, just like last year. As both teams have a completely new driver lineup, we don't know yet how they are doing.
Which means that we don't know where Toyota stands (as there's nothing to compare them to).

Bruni seems to be a lot faster than Baumgartner, and Baumgartner seems to be a lot slower than the non-Minardi cars.
As Bruni's car had major technical problems, we don't know whether or not Minardi has closed the gap to the second Jordan.
And just like last year, it will be very difficult to find out whether Jordan can only make one fast car, or whether the difference between their drivers is just very big.