IMSA Race 2017 12 Hours of Sebring

[chernaudi]

And I think that it's unfair to expect every endurance race (ie, a race longer than 1000km/6 hours) to have cars seconds apart. That's been rare even in the WEC to see the first two finishers much less than 20-30 seconds apart. The close finishes at Fuji in 2012, Silverstone '13, and Fuji '16 are IMO the exceptions that prove the rule. Most WEC races have had winning margins of more than 30 seconds, sometimes it was in terms of laps in the 6 hour races.

Yeah, there were several times in the Audi era where the winning margin was less than 20 seconds, but with the exception of 1999, it was Audi vs Audi. I don't see that much difference. If Gibson and Cosworth had their electrical bits sorted, Rebellion might have challenged. So could ESM if they got the Nissan deal up and running when Cadillac did.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Oh how quickly things change. Last few years it was "these bogus late race cautions to manufacture a close finish are bs. Let them race!" Now they are, and it's "this isn't good racing. Where's the photo finish?" Lets make up our mind here.....

lol I was thinking the same thing!! i bet if Toyota wips on Porsche the first few races in wec they will be the best races ever.....

whiners will be whiners,and haters will always hate.


Yall can go back and watch Sebring 2013 when both audis dominated the race and ran to team orders,or 2010 when Audi didn't run at all and Peugeot ran a 12 hour test session in the middle of an alms race.or if you want close races the. You can go back and watch Sebring 2014 and 15 FCY fests.

[Matt]

It's official, most people here just want to complain about IMSA. Hopefully they're go away once the WEC season starts and leave the people that actually enjoy this stuff alone.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

And I think that it's unfair to expect every endurance race (ie, a race longer than 1000km/6 hours) to have cars seconds apart. That's been rare even in the WEC to see the first two finishers much less than 20-30 seconds apart. The close finishes at Fuji in 2012, Silverstone '13, and Fuji '16 are IMO the exceptions that prove the rule. Most WEC races have had winning margins of more than 30 seconds, sometimes it was in terms of laps in the 6 hour races.

Yeah, there were several times in the Audi era where the winning margin was less than 20 seconds, but with the exception of 1999, it was Audi vs Audi. I don't see that much difference. If Gibson and Cosworth had their electrical bits sorted, Rebellion might have challenged. So could ESM if they got the Nissan deal up and running when Cadillac did.

lol ESM still has that one little issue of Ed brown and Scott sharp.

[RWill2073]

I think we all have a little wishful thinking and hope that the powers that be read places like this to gauge the mood of the fans. I've seen posts comment on how maybe, just maybe, they do.

Well, form the last few years, the majority has been complaining about quick draw cautions. Especially late in races. Fears of NASCAR turning sports car racing into another of their type of entertainment package. Starting sometime last year, it looked as though an effort was being made to not throw cautions. In fact, there's been times I've been watching a car sit stranded for seemingly minutes as cars fly past them while race control waits it out to see if they'll get going and I'll hold my breath as a car goes by and wonder if maybe a caution is needed.... Before they have thrown it. They easily and rightly could have thrown one at Daytona when the bmw was stranded in the fast lane on pit road and crew members had to go retrieve it. But they didn't. We just had a 12 hour race with only 6 cautions and none that were even close to questionable. It seems if our wishful thinking were true, our complaints were heard.

Now, we get an actual endurance race and it's swinging the other way and people are complainig they didn't get their photo finish. If, and I know it's wishful thinking, but if they do track places like this, they would get the idea that they now need more manufacturing of finishes. More yellows to bunch it up. Maybe lucky dog so the jdc and 31 axr could have gotten their laps back and made a more "exciting" finish. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Let's not mess with a good thing. Atherton saved his one time to get it right for now, apparently, and I want to see this continue on this path.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

This sounds exactly like a well regulated class as far as bop goes. Multiple different cars can have a chance, but there's room for that sporting quality..... development.....

That's not what I said. I didn't question the bop, but I did say that the race up front wasn't much of a race. The being equal is only one part of having a good race. The only competition being out of the contention for the win less than halfway through doesn't make it a good race to me.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

BoP got the cars pretty damn close on pace and a couple non Caddys proved to be quicker than the Caddys. Then they broke. Perhaps when one car loses its brakes or another loses boost, everyone must stop and fix something to even it out.

And you said it. Shame teams don't have their cars sorted and things end up with cars a handful of laps down. Strange, I recall "racing" like this year's ago....

Wasn't a 'good race' then either, not in the prototype class. Half a race of some competition is not anything to write home about imo. It only shows that there's some hope that the cars are about equal in terms of speed. I took that positive from it.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I look at the winning makes on the front stretch structure every time I go to Sebring. Porsche dominated the 80s, Nissan the early 90s and Audi in the 2000s. Must have been some bad racing, in your opinion.

That's cool. This isn't the 80's 90's or 00's. I don't know why it matters to you or anyone else what I think. You can enjoy only an intrateam battle and the others crapped out just hours into the race. I don't. That's the prototype class though. I thought I made that clear.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Not sure what would satisfy you but that's okay. I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Edit: if close competition is all you desire, you loved Grand Am. Got that every race. I took it for what it was worth and found some enjoyment from it.

Now I need to got watch the Gatornationals final round, but only Pro Stock, because that gives me a close race every time. Nitro is for the birds.

I think it was a decent race but for the top class. So I will say it again, prototype disappointed, again. The other classes were fine. I hope it's okay with you and others to have an opinion on that.

Btw, I didn't like GA. Too spec for me. ALMS and ILMC were my choice. Even they had boring prototype races. Just so you know I am not biased towards the European style of endurance.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TF110

Wasn't a 'good race' then either, not in the prototype class. Half a race of some competition is not anything to write home about imo. It only shows that there's some hope that the cars are about equal in terms of speed. I took that positive from it.

That's cool. This isn't the 80's 90's or 00's. I don't know why it matters to you or anyone else what I think. You can enjoy only an intrateam battle and the others crapped out just hours into the race. I don't. That's the prototype class though. I thought I made that clear.

I think it was a decent race but for the top class. So I will say it again, prototype disappointed, again. The other classes were fine. I hope it's okay with you and others to have an opinion on that.

Btw, I didn't like GA. Too spec for me. ALMS and ILMC were my choice. Even they had boring prototype races. Just so you know I am not biased towards the European style of endurance.

You don't have to keep repeating prototype class. I get you didn't enjoy it. Outside of the past couple of years and Grand Am, endurance racing in prototypes has always been this way and probably always will, unless want a spec series, which you don't.

[pach233]

Additionally, I would like to point out that the first hour had 8-9 cars running extremely competitively through the first couple rounds of pit stops. Remember Rebellion was leading, PR1 and ESM were right on the tail of the Action Express cars and WTR couldn't was stuck in 6th until after the first stop.

Over the course of the race, the better preparation, professionalism and consistency of the Cadillacs won out. The only other prototype to run trouble free was JDC which no one would argue is the most experienced in terms of top level racing nor the top of the driver talent level (no offense, they ran an awesome race.)

The Cadillacs were overall quickest on pace and most reliable. But had ESM or Rebellion run reliably they would have competed. That's all we can ask for. Let the cars develop and get rid of teething issues and I think we'll see an extremely competitive class in the next year or two.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by TF110

That's not what I said. I didn't question the bop, but I did say that the race up front wasn't much of a race. The being equal is only one part of having a good race.

Glad i went to Sebring last weekend instead of watching whichever race you saw.

Originally Posted by TF110

The only competition being out of the contention for the win less than halfway through doesn't make it a good race to me.

Funny, I saw a 13-second margin of victory after 12 hours of racing. If Alex Lynne had made the slightest error (or like Porsche, got as puncture ....) Oh, I guess having a different car win in that case would still mean there was no competition?

Just like there was no competition in GTLM, right? After all, the Corvette led the final 41 laps.

Originally Posted by TF110

Wasn't a 'good race' then either, not in the prototype class. Half a race of some competition is not anything to write home about imo. It only shows that there's some hope that the cars are about equal in terms of speed. I took that positive from it.

Let me talk to you about this sport I really like. it is called "sports car endurance racing." People try to build cars to suit some rules and then drive them at insane speeds for six, then, twelve, or 24 hours.

Some cars are fast but break. Some simply aren't fast. Some are fast, break, get fixed, and come back to do really well.

teams have to get everything right, And get really lucky to win.

I have watched Serena Williams win countless two-set titles where here opponent won maybe three games. No one ever said she should have to wear leg weights or a training mask while playing.

You build the best car you can, you run it as hard as you can, you fix it if you can.

Its seems TF110, that you want both LMP1 and ... spec racing.

Originally Posted by TF110

I think it was a decent race but for the top class. So I will say it again, prototype disappointed, again. The other classes were fine. I hope it's okay with you and others to have an opinion on that.

Sure ... if you want to not enjoy life, go ahead. Don't cry when it is gone.

People here who did enjoy the race are trying to help you expand your boundaries so that you might see the good that we saw. if being disappointed suits you better, cry away.

But hey ... life is short, and if we really go back and watch those old races ... they were pretty much the same as today's races. Some close finishes, some runaways, some races where people knew who was going to win after ten laps.

Nostalgia tells us the past was always better. facts show us that not too much has changed ... but some of us are so polluted with nostalgia that we can no longer appreciate our passing lives.

I have been on these boards or the old SPEED boards or the ALMS boards by Bear for a Looong time. And something which has never changed was the huge proportion of people who hated whatever the current racing series was or were .... always saying how the past was better.

What's funny is the "past" we are extolling now is the "past" we were all p1$$ing on when it was the present.

I hope it is okay that we have opinions about your opinions.

By the way, you must Hate Toyota's LMP1 program---only one one race all season. Not even close to the Porsches and Audis. Pretty much went into most races knowing they would be behind the Germans.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Having read more of the thread, and thought a little (as much as I can):

BoP was right for this race. The best cars crewed by the best teams came out on top.

As for what endurance racing is supposed to be ... this was it.

Some cars set up for the heat, and led all day (Ford.) Some cars set up for the cooler weather, and came back in the dark.

Ford could have has its 1 -2-3 and its Big Three ... but forgot that leading all day doesn’t mean crap if you don’t lead the last lap.

People who were not “excited” had best stick to sprint racing. Side-by-side sprints to the checker are Not the domain of endurance racing ... if the winner is in question into the last stint, That is a tense enduro.

Endurance racing is about lasting, adapting, overcoming, and making sure you have the best car and crew in the final two hours.

If you need an adrenaline rush, go sky-diving.

This was a really good race from trackside. I will watch it on YouTube or whatever later, but i cannot imagine it will be much less.

Not many cautions, no stupid calls, no idiotic driving (Thanks, PC) and good competition.

I have been a Bleekemolen fan for years, and he really kicked butt at Sebring.

The GT class offered a ton of good competition. I was glad to see ford not win, but more glad to see them beat on pace.

Rebellion once again disappointed me massively. Why they cannot make their car run, I cannot fathom. JDC-Miller had no problems. Pr1-Mathieson had no problems. Rebellion had pace—and massive and varied issues. Rebellion has (IMO) the strongest driver line-up on the grid, and certainly Potentially the best car. Please get it together Rebellion.

Likely we can expect a season of “Which Cadillac will win” but if they win by being better, I can deal with that.

Someone said that the turbo motors could also make the torque. I am not sure, but it does seem to me that they could trades some top end speed for some low-end pulling power and it would benefit them. Maybe the turbo teams got too excited by top-speed numbers at Daytona, and forgot how odd a course that is.

Mazda at least managed a top-five. I am not sure I can hope for much more than a few poles from Mazda this year. I don’t see a two-liter being competitive and reliable when matched against a motor three times that size.

Anyway ... my health has still not recovered, so I will not prattle on any further here.

Great race. an actual Sebring 12 Hours, IMO. Sorry for those who think otherwise.

BoP was right for this race. The best cars crewed by the best teams came out on top.
-Yes agreed. Cadillacs are the best right now and they should dominate.

As for what endurance racing is supposed to be ... this was it.
- Just about, but still SRO and WEC don't throw safety cars for simple car stalls.

Some cars set up for the heat, and led all day (Ford.) Some cars set up for the cooler weather, and came back in the dark.
-That's for sure. Ford controlled the day, Porsche the sunset, Corvette in the dark. Guess who won!


Endurance racing is about lasting, adapting, overcoming, and making sure you have the best car and crew
-Yes for sure. There was actually some attrition in DPI, the other categories not the case. I'm surprised LMPC cars hung in there. The top two beat the GTLM winners

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

My first year at Sebring in 2006 Audi finished 1st overall, the fields in a p2 finished 2nd overall and a gt1 corvette finished 3rd overall, all laps off each other. I thought there was some great racing that race. Guess I was wrong......

Oh how quickly things change. Last few years it was "these bogus late race cautions to manufacture a close finish are bs. Let them race!" Now they are, and it's "this isn't good racing. Where's the photo finish?" Lets make up our mind here.....

Its almost to the point where I really like endurance racing right now. The GT classes should be 24/12 hour all out sprint races and that is what it is.

I personally would like to see the prototype class get back to the mechanical endurance test that it used to be where attrition rates were real high. Such as was the case up to about 2004. We just about get that now with the exception of the Cadillac DPI's which seem to have take the mantle from the Corvette DP of being bullet proof and unbreakable.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

As for what endurance racing is supposed to be ... this was it.
- Just about, but still SRO and WEC don't throw safety cars for simple car stalls.

American racing can be a bit trigger happy with FCYs, but there's times I cringe seeing volunteers put in some of the conditions they are put in under local yellows all the way up to F1. I'd like to see something in between, but am also a fan of a stalled car just sitting there until the next stoppage, as long as the driver can exit safely and the stopped vehicle doesn't pose any additional risk.

Also, track access for safety vehicles or snatch tractors (great term BTW) at Sebring and many US circuits are tight and precarious, but I don't know enough about the procedures of getting a car off the track, where that can be done and how it can be done safely.

They're annoying but if a FCY can prevent bodily harm, hard for me to argue against them.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

You don't have to keep repeating prototype class. I get you didn't enjoy it. Outside of the past couple of years and Grand Am, endurance racing in prototypes has always been this way and probably always will, unless want a spec series, which you don't.

I don't have to repeat it? Ok, I was sure you were thinking I didn't enjoy the race. That's how it sounds to me, even though I have repeatedly said only the race in prototype wasn't great. It's already close to spec with the minute level of detail the bop goes into, but it's better than DP

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Glad i went to Sebring last weekend instead of watching whichever race you saw. Funny, I saw a 13-second margin of victory after 12 hours of racing. If Alex Lynne had made the slightest error (or like Porsche, got as puncture ....) Oh, I guess having a different car win in that case would still mean there was no competition?

Good for you, I'm glad you had fun. I didn't find prototype interesting after the nearest non-Caddy fell laps back. Sorry we don't share the same opinion

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Just like there was no competition in GTLM, right? After all, the Corvette led the final 41 laps.

GTLM =/= prototype. I wasn't rooting for anyone in the race so whoever won was fine, but at least there was a variety of contenders that could legitimately win in the GT classes. Not so much in the top class.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Let me talk to you about this sport I really like. it is called "sports car endurance racing." People try to build cars to suit some rules and then drive them at insane speeds for six, then, twelve, or 24 hours.

Some cars are fast but break. Some simply aren't fast. Some are fast, break, get fixed, and come back to do really well.

teams have to get everything right, And get really lucky to win.

I have watched Serena Williams win countless two-set titles where here opponent won maybe three games. No one ever said she should have to wear leg weights or a training mask while playing.

You build the best car you can, you run it as hard as you can, you fix it if you can.

There's no need for elementary explanations. Just because I didn't find enjoyment watching prototype doesn't mean you need to defend your view with your 'break down' on what you feel sportscar racing is 'all about'.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Its seems TF110, that you want both LMP1 and ... spec racing.

No, I just want a close race up front between two or more different cars, not the same whitewash. Seemingly that's not allowed here.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Sure ... if you want to not enjoy life, go ahead. Don't cry when it is gone.

Bit extreme there, no?

Originally Posted by Maelochs

People here who did enjoy the race are trying to help you expand your boundaries so that you might see the good that we saw. if being disappointed suits you better, cry away.

I did enjoy the race, even said that I did. But it seems you misread, like others, when I said only prototype was lacking. You keep generalizing.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

But hey ... life is short, and if we really go back and watch those old races ... they were pretty much the same as today's races. Some close finishes, some runaways, some races where people knew who was going to win after ten laps.

Nostalgia tells us the past was always better. facts show us that not too much has changed ... but some of us are so polluted with nostalgia that we can no longer appreciate our passing lives.

I have been on these boards or the old SPEED boards or the ALMS boards by Bear for a Looong time. And something which has never changed was the huge proportion of people who hated whatever the current racing series was or were .... always saying how the past was better.

What's funny is the "past" we are extolling now is the "past" we were all p1$$ing on when it was the present.

Who's doing that? I just see a few people taking one statement and trying to extend it to the whole of the race when I only mentioned one class. Way to blow things out of proportion.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I hope it is okay that we have opinions about your opinions.

I hope it's ok to have opinions in general and not be a labeled fanboy of one thing or another just because I didn't find much enjoyment in a particular class.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

By the way, you must Hate Toyota's LMP1 program---only one (won?) one race all season. Not even close to the Porsches and Audis. Pretty much went into most races knowing they would be behind the Germans.

That's fine, they did great for a new car and were in contention for the win at plenty of other rounds, particularly Le Mans. The best part about it is there was two others competing with eachother and, get this, two other classes with tight racing! It must be such a new concept to like one thing about a race and not like another.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TF110

It's not the best race I've watched, but it was more bearable than Daytona. The prototype field probably won't be close until the middle of the season. Not on the reliability front at least. I hope the other p2's and dpi's get the cars on song so we can have a real race.

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't have to repeat it? Ok, I was sure you were thinking I didn't enjoy the race. That's how it sounds to me, even though I have repeatedly said only the race in prototype wasn't great. It's already close to spec with the minute level of detail the bop goes into, but it's better than DP

Yeah, I got that from the original statement. Then you went after anyone who disagreed with you by describing most prototype endurance races I've watched as "not good", unless it was a DP race, which are always close, but that's not good either because it was DP. Maybe if it was Caddy vs anyone else, that would be a good race...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Yeah, I got that from the original statement. Then you went after anyone who disagreed with you by describing most prototype endurance races I've watched as "not good", unless it was a DP race, which are always close, but that's not good either because it was DP. Maybe if it was Caddy vs anyone else, that would be a good race...

I think you got lost on my point and you confused me "going after" people who disagree when it was the opposite. I don't know what you missed since you got what I was saying.

As for Grand Am, it was too spec in the DP class (I already said that) and had some questionable manufactured finishes. Not to mention the looks of the cars was a big turn off.

Also, you can stop with the 'good race' jabs. We don't have like opinions then oh well. If someone calls into question your opinion you elaborate the same way I am. You don't pretend to have an open mind to what someone else thinks then lambast them for not feeling the same way. What I see is that that's happening in this thread to anyone who doesn't praise dpi's "good race"

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think you got lost on my point and you confused me "going after" people who disagree when it was the opposite. I don't know what you missed since you got what I was saying.

I missed nothing.Your general tone towards a couple of responses came off as such. That's my opinion. I hope that's okay to state and not offensive.

As for Grand Am, it was too spec in the DP class (I already said that) and had some questionable manufactured finishes. Not to mention the looks of the cars was a big turn off.

I'm pointing out, again, that your apparent sole reason for not enjoying this particular race is the lack of competition, but competition alone isn't good enough either. Guess you missed that.

And I get that some didn't like DPs. I skimmed the highlights of disdain for a little more than a decade....

Also, you can stop with the 'good race' jabs. We don't have like opinions then oh well. If someone calls into question your opinion you elaborate the same way I am. You don't pretend to have an open mind to what someone else thinks then lambast them for not feeling the same way. What I see is that that's happening in this thread to anyone who doesn't praise dpi's "good race"

Jabs? Lambast? I've not attacked you personally, like I feel others may have. I disagreed with what you described as "not good" being just like many other, if not most, endurance races, as several other posters have pointed out. I like hearing others opinions and why they came to that. Your reasonings, which have been repeated several times, haven't made sense to me yet, hence my questions or probing statements that likely don't translate well on forums.

That's okay. You don't have to like anything about imsa p cars or races. I might get a little worried if you did.



I do however agree that your general sentiment is that the rest of the field need to get their collective crap together or its going to be a Caddy run away all season, which may not be so fun and seems to be the biggest hold up with most naysayers atm.

[carbsmith]

American FCYs are pretty hypocritical and ineffective in safety terms. They sit there staring at a car until the yellow light goes on at which point they instantly jump out on the track in complete disregard of cars blasting past to catch the pace car at the exact same speed they were doing under local yellow. It's 100% insurance nonsense.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

American FCYs are pretty hypocritical and ineffective in safety terms. They sit there staring at a car until the yellow light goes on at which point they instantly jump out on the track in complete disregard of cars blasting past to catch the pace car at the exact same speed they were doing under local yellow. It's 100% insurance nonsense.

I don't know if I completely agree as the wave-bys are typically done after the incident is cleared or "secured". The drivers tend to respect the track workers too and significantly reduce their speed around where the incident occurred. However, your last statement I completely agree with... Apologies to anyone involved in the insurance industry, but I don't know anyone, anywhere in the world, that likes insurance companies.

[JHamilton]

I know there is disagreement over BoP, which I understand, but as far as a spectacle is concerned, I think we have a hit on our hands folks. The variety of sights and sounds is truly enthralling. Please do yourself a favor and make it to an IMSA race this year if you can. I got goosebumps during the parade laps for the first time in many years. Despite the reliability right now, dat Gibson V8... you WEC fans are in for a treat too.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I missed nothing.Your general tone towards a couple of responses came off as such. That's my opinion. I hope that's okay to state and not offensive.

I don't take offense. I just call out what I see as a double standard. And I think you did miss something because I never said I didn't like the race (as you state again below), but you say I did. My first post was speaking strictly about the prototype class and how it needs to have other teams be reliable.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I'm pointing out, again, that your apparent sole reason for not enjoying this particular race is the lack of competition, but competition alone isn't good enough either. Guess you missed that.

And I get that some didn't like DPs. I skimmed the highlights of disdain for a little more than a decade....

This is what I mean when I say you missed what I was saying. I thought the GTLM and GTD race was good, but not so much prototype. Prototype lacked competition for much of the race, only the first part seemed like it could go either way, then every non-Cadillac fell by the wayside and it turned dull, in my opinion. I'll leave the DP subject alone, that's too touchy

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Jabs? Lambast? I've not attacked you personally, like I feel others may have. I disagreed with what you described as "not good" being just like many other, if not most, endurance races, as several other posters have pointed out. I like hearing others opinions and why they came to that. Your reasonings, which have been repeated several times, haven't made sense to me yet, hence my questions or probing statements that likely don't translate well on forums.

That's okay. You don't have to like anything about imsa p cars or races. I might get a little worried if you did.

I wasn't saying anyone in particular, but the general tone seemed that if you didn't enjoy something you were in the wrong. As if the race for first Cadillac had to be enjoyed. BTW I like the DPi's, I just wish they were allowed to run more open and free. I will never like the way they're hamstrung by bop, but they look and sound good.

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I do however agree that your general sentiment is that the rest of the field need to get their collective crap together or its going to be a Caddy run away all season, which may not be so fun and seems to be the biggest hold up with most naysayers atm.

That's basically my point. That's about the only reason why it wasn't that great of a race (up front) to me. Congrats to Cadillac, but I would have thought some other teams were going to have their sh-- together by now! Maybe the Daytona turnaround was too short?

[Rodger Davies]

Pity we can't see another team run a Mazda so we could find out how much of their underperformance is the car and how much is Speedsource

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Pity we can't see another team run a Mazda so we could find out how much of their underperformance is the car and how much is Speedsource

There is that aspect to it too. Remember Dyson managed to take a working chassis and engine and combine them into something that spent more time on fire than anything else.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't take offense. I just call out what I see as a double standard. And I think you did miss something because I never said I didn't like the race (as you state again below), but you say I did. My first post was speaking strictly about the prototype class and how it needs to have other teams be reliable.

Double standard? For disagreeing with your assessment? Huh?

We've cleared up the prototype / overall race posts ago. You seem to want to keep beating that drum like it's a point.

This is what I mean when I say you missed what I was saying. I thought the GTLM and GTD race was good, but not so much prototype. Prototype lacked competition for much of the race, only the first part seemed like it could go either way, then every non-Cadillac fell by the wayside and it turned dull, in my opinion. I'll leave the DP subject alone, that's too touchy

Your point on DPs was hit home the first two times you mentioned you didn't like them in this discussion. Please feel free to mention one more time you don't like them in case I missed it and call me touchy about it.

I wasn't saying anyone in particular, but the general tone seemed that if you didn't enjoy something you were in the wrong. As if the race for first Cadillac had to be enjoyed. BTW I like the DPi's, I just wish they were allowed to run more open and free. I will never like the way they're hamstrung by bop, but they look and sound good.

I disagreed, provided specific reasons for doing so and you have repeated your original reasons, in different words without addressing any of my points. That's fine.

It's a BoP series so they'll never run "free", but glad you you like something about them.

That's basically my point. That's about the only reason why it wasn't that great of a race (up front) to me. Congrats to Cadillac, but I would have thought some other teams were going to have their sh-- together by now! Maybe the Daytona turnaround was too short?

I never said great. It was enjoyable. Good grief.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I don't know if I completely agree as the wave-bys are typically done after the incident is cleared or "secured". The drivers tend to respect the track workers too and significantly reduce their speed around where the incident occurred. However, your last statement I completely agree with... Apologies to anyone involved in the insurance industry, but I don't know anyone, anywhere in the world, that likes insurance companies.

Originally Posted by carbsmith

American FCYs are pretty hypocritical and ineffective in safety terms. They sit there staring at a car until the yellow light goes on at which point they instantly jump out on the track in complete disregard of cars blasting past to catch the pace car at the exact same speed they were doing under local yellow. It's 100% insurance nonsense.

I have to agree with JHamilton and my brother in law is in insurance; I give him grief constantly, but do they check their policies every time there's an incident?

They do jump out before the entire field is picked up by the SC, but these conditions are the same as a local yellow. No passing "reduce speed".

No system is perfect and I'd like to see some changes, but prefer experts in the field making decisions what's safe for people they work with.

[Matt]

Sebring data c/o NASportscar

http://nasportscar.com/2017-weathert...rs-of-sebring/