Women in motorsport

[werner]

In the DTM off-season-tread a discussion started about the question 'are women in motorsport there because of their gender, or because of their talents and skills'. The Audi-case was just an example, but since the discussion isn't related to DTM per-se, maybe we should discus it here.

In my opinion women should not be hired because they are a women. So many people want to drive in top-of-the-bill raceseries, but there is only a place for a few. Those few should be the best.
However, in a serie like the DTM, wich is only there to create interest for the car-manufacturers involved, not only racingskills are needed, but dealing with media ans sponsors etc. are very important to. In this perspective being a woman can add a real value to you for a manufacturer.
It will always be the case that man will dominate motorsports, and almost any sport for that matter both quantitative as qualitative. The reasons are both simple and unchangeble. Evolution realized that the average man is fysically stronger and mentally more competetive than the average woman, and thus more willing and able to race cars.

[Ellmau]

I voted "Yes, but they shouldn't". Man and woman should be treated equally.

[ensign14]

I think there's a doublethink with women in motorsport. They have a higher hurdle to clear at the start - "women drivers? Pah" - so find it more difficult to get started and taken seriously.

But, at some point and for some drivers, it's positive discrimination as they attract publicity. Susie Stoddard did not deserve 2 McLaren Young Driver nominations nor a DTM seat...then again, it's nothing like the advantages you get as a relative of someone famous...

It seems odd that talented women drivers like Sara Senske and Katherine Legge don't get decent drives, as for any publicist it's a dream. Perhaps they want to be taken too seriously as drivers rather than curios.

[Mr Pink]

I agree that men and women should be threated equally. In modern racing that of course includes the actual driving but also marketing where women might have an advantage and physical ability where men have an advantage.

I would like to see Emma Kimiläinen in DTM, I think she´s got some real talent.

[THIM]

Often they are daughters of ex-racers and are hired by teams for PR reasons. They don't need to be treated seriously, as long, as dad is. But those truthly interested in racing can have some difficulties. For example in Polish racing they quite often get hit by guys, they overtake.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by ensign14

It seems odd that talented women drivers like Sara Senske and Katherine Legge don't get decent drives, as for any publicist it's a dream. Perhaps they want to be taken too seriously as drivers rather than curios.

Oh come on, Kat has been handed that CC drive. Do you think she would have gotten it (and kept it) if she hadn't been a woman? She's been quite rubbish in CC this year. Not without talent, I'll give her that, but she really should have progressed slower. About Senske, never heard of. What has she done in her past, and now?

[ensign14]

Legge won three times in the feeder formula. Whether she was handed the finance for the ride or not is irrelevant - her performance merited promotion. The fact that she's been stuck in the second car of a team that can afford to run half of one is surely not irrelevant; she did a lot better in her first season than expected and but for misfortune would have got podia.

Don't think Senske's raced for a few years, she was scoring poles and podia in the Barber Dodge series last I heard.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Legge won three times in the feeder formula. Whether she was handed the finance for the ride or not is irrelevant - her performance merited promotion. The fact that she's been stuck in the second car of a team that can afford to run half of one is surely not irrelevant; she did a lot better in her first season than expected and but for misfortune would have got podia.

Don't think Senske's raced for a few years, she was scoring poles and podia in the Barber Dodge series last I heard.

I raced against Katherine in karts... and she beat me... therefore she must be pretty good !

[CDK 7]

[quote=Mr Pink]I agree that men and women should be threated equally. In modern racing that of course includes the actual driving but also marketing where women might have an advantage.

jodie hemming in EuroBoss top girl

[mountainstar]

Sara Senske was pretty good but ran out of money. I think she is working with Lyn St. James right now or as an instructor somewhere.

[TheSuicideKing]

Absolutely. Unfortunately, they're also like men in the same respect that the good ones can't bring money and the bad ones can, so the bad ones end up in the seats.

[Olive]

Stoddard is better than Legge, so if Legge deserves a place in ChampCar, Stoddard merits a DTM ride.

[RotorFan]

In my opinion there is no such thing as positive discrimination. Discrimination is discrimination, there is no "reverse" or "positive", it is all bad.

[SGarage]

If we're talking about women's performance I would remind you guys Claudia Hurtgen. She won German TCC at the wheel of BMW and left behind such drivers as Franz Engstler, Patrick Bernhard etc. Another lady from Germany Elen Lohr also did good history in motorsport.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by SGarage

If we're talking about women's performance I would remind you guys Claudia Hurtgen.

AMEN to that!

She is really fast, not only in comparison to other women in motorsport. It´s a shame that she hasn´t got a WTCC ride. I would love to see what she could do behind a works Schnitzer BMW...
and now she´s only driving around the Nordschleife against hobby drivers...

Her problem is (and thats the real shame for positive or negative discrimination of women in motorsports) that she doesn´t look like a model. No offense to Danica Patrick or Janina Ickx, but to be "positively discriminated" in motorsport you have to be attractive. IMHO thats just not the spirit of the sport...

[Chris Y]

Erin Crocker does pretty well in ARCA on occasion. 2nd at Kansas last year..

[Rob29]

This weekend there seems to have been a record number of females in US open wheel racing;
Indycars;
Danica Patrick
Sara Fisher
Milka Duno
Indy Lights;
Bia Fguerio(Ana Bieatriz)
Cyndie Allemann
Christina Orr
Atlantic;
Simona deSilvesto
Pro Mazda
Kristy Kester
Natalia Kowalska

[Aslak Vind]

Emma Kimiliänen is among the best women drivers, with a shout of getting a factory drive. She has earlier tested in the DTM for Audi, and at the moment she is honing her skills in Formula Masters ADAC powered by Volkswagen.

She is learning all the German, Dutch and Belgium tracks, learning the ways of the winged cars. And she still owns the laprecord round Sturup Raceway, which she set in her former Radical in a race, where she also set pole and won in front of the boys.

She is raw talent, the only hurdle is to keep her back from advancing to quick.

Amen to the words being said about Claudia Hurtgen, I would love to see her in WTCC. We should not forget Ellen Lohr as well, she has done well in both cars and trucks!

[MSportUK]

I don't think it's discrimination as such. You could say that women have an easier time getting finance/sponsorship and are therefore more able to put themselves in a race seat, but I think that's largely because there are way more men fighting for the same cash and women have more options open to them.

Womens magazines, cosmetic brands, a whole world of women's products etc would all love a half-decent female driver to associate with their brand. The opportunities for 'strong women' and 'girls taking on the boys' ads and editorial are endless. If there are determined women drivers worth a seat, but not getting finance to race, they (or their managers) aren't trying hard enough!

[bella]

women aren't discriminated against in motorsport. we just have to work twice as hard to get the same amount of respect as a man does in the same job. only then are you equal and considered one of the lads.

[thereal_tdb]

I think there needs to be a lot more women in motorsport! in every part of it!

Just think guys...... lots of women around that will never say....." all you talk about is cars" !

[werner]

Well, to talk about cars you have friends and bars etc. With women I try to do other things...

[mountainstar]

I think you'll see more women in the future as race car drivers because culturally we have moved to a unisex culture.

Women are now pilates buff muscle bound, career ladder climbing, can do it all including raising children and running the house and Men are now sniveling sensitive metrosexuals out getting their hair done and shopping for manpurses and shoes that exist only to provide dna donation to females. Women are losing their femininity and men are losing their masculinity.

A number of years ago it was more uncommon to see women in motorsport but now I don't think people really think about it anymore.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Women are now pilates buff muscle bound, career ladder climbing, can do it all including raising children and running the house and Men are now sniveling sensitive metrosexuals out getting their hair done and shopping for manpurses and shoes that exist only to provide dna donation to females. Women are losing their femininity and men are losing their masculinity.

Amen

However, I do believe a female driver can still look and act feminin.

[cmk]

Michelle Mouton proves the case that women can and should be in motorsport, because they can have the same level of talent and guts that men can, and she did it way back in the early 80s! Very nearly World Rally Champion for Audi in '82, twice Pikes Peak record-holder, and a multiple rally winner. Take a long look in the mirror and ask whether you could powerslide an Audi Quattro S1 around the edge of a cliff at mind-numbing speed. But I guess she wasn't pretty enough or something?