Le Mans 2010 - Standing on concrete barriers

[275 GTB-4]

Hi...don't wish to start a big flap about safety at Le Mans...but can a Marshal who has been there please explain:

a) Why it is necessary to stand on the concrete barrier, or on a step maybe one foot below, to Flag at some posts? (probably to get up high enough to give the drivers sufficient warning)

b) Why is it condoned? (Marshals exposed to unecessary danger)

c) If the answer is "because it is", then thats fine, that I understand!!

Yours in Motorsport...Mick

[mini1400]

I also noticed that some of the yellow flag marshals were going out to the incidents to wave the flag, is that the norm in France?

[Woolley]

I've seen it quite often in European racing, so I'd guess it's considered normal.

Looking at some of the flag points, they seem to be a concrete pad built level with the top of the wall. Not keen on that idea at all.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've seen it quite often in European racing, so I'd guess it's considered normal.

Looking at some of the flag points, they seem to be a concrete pad built level with the top of the wall. Not keen on that idea at all.

Well...pads above the concrete barrier can be OK...if there is sufficient protection or a decent escape route for the soft and squishy Marshals...but at Le Mans they are just steps (temporary even) let into the concrete barrier.

[alimcb]

I was more worried about the marshal standing on the apex at Arnage waving down the cars, he nearly got run over twice and still went back for more.

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by alimcb

I was more worried about the marshal standing on the apex at Arnage waving down the cars, he nearly got run over twice and still went back for more.

And he crossed the track to do it!

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by alimcb

I was more worried about the marshal standing on the apex at Arnage waving down the cars, he nearly got run over twice and still went back for more.

Having spectated at at Arnage a couple of years ago, when there was an incident, this tends to be the norm. The flag marshal was also stood on the apex.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Having spectated at at Arnage a couple of years ago, when there was an incident, this tends to be the norm. The flag marshal was also stood on the apex.

Yep Nick....obviously Marshaling in accordance with the old rules where just about anything went...I'm sure that standing on the track may also be the only way to get some peoples attention as well!

I have no axe to grind here...just curious...BTW what does the blue book say about Marshals sense of balance requirements...ex-Circus types should apply maybe!!

[Any one else having trouble logging onto and navigating TNF? My connection is pure shyte at the moment...I log in and do one thing then it locks up!! Very frustrating...tis why I have been missing in action lately! ]

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by White flag man

Having spectated at at Arnage a couple of years ago, when there was an incident, this tends to be the norm. The flag marshal was also stood on the apex.

From memory of seeing it on the big screen, I can only assume that he was waving cars away from the vehicle as it was pushed across to the inside of the corner. However, he just arrived a little too early and ended up pushing the cars towards the stationary vehicle.

A pretty brave move to stand right there, but not quite as brave as facing down an accelerating GroupC car on the start/finish because they ended the race early, and he was waving them in to Parc Ferme!! That man must have *flags of steel*!!

[graeme]

Originally Posted by alimcb

I was more worried about the marshal standing on the apex at Arnage waving down the cars, he nearly got run over twice and still went back for more.

The trouble with that chap was, that to avoid the incident drivers would have to turn-in late and take a late apex. Standing on the middle of the apex forced drivers out wide, and towards the incident!

[SouthportFC Fan]

Concrete to stand on ? Luxury !!

In '91 at Le Mans, we stood on a straw bale at post 35bis, which is just past the restaurants on the Mulsanne.

You didn't need ExLax if you were having any digestive issues !!! Particularly as this was where the works Mercedes team mounted their speed trap !

[Dan Friel]

Originally Posted by graeme

The trouble with that chap was, that to avoid the incident drivers would have to turn-in late and take a late apex. Standing on the middle of the apex forced drivers out wide, and towards the incident!

Great wasn't it! Outstanding piece of incompetence.. And a little scary.

[haystacks]

Best bit of the flagging was at the end of the Group C race, they flagged them into the pit lane exit, as they were being checkered at start line. brave or what.

[Hepatic]

slowly catching up with the coverage after spending Sunday at Mallory. during the Kolles incident at the Porsche curves you got a good shot of the flag marshal after the incident with 2 others. it seems the walls are either very tall or the marshals are as short as me . The ground behind the wall is the same level as that in front and the flaggy has no option but to stand like that in order to do their job. they would only just be able to see traffic and certainly won't be able to wave without banging their arm on the wall.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

slowly catching up with the coverage after spending Sunday at Mallory. during the Kolles incident at the Porsche curves you got a good shot of the flag marshal after the incident with 2 others. it seems the walls are either very tall or the marshals are as short as me . The ground behind the wall is the same level as that in front and the flaggy has no option but to stand like that in order to do their job. they would only just be able to see traffic and certainly won't be able to wave without banging their arm on the wall.

Hepatic...WADR....I have flagged many many times just like that...difficult because you have to remember to keep your feet a respectable distance from the base of the block....in the event that a car impacts and breaks your ankles.

I really can't see why there is a need to expose yourself to danger like that when the more sensible thing is to get down behind the barrier and Flag at drivers eye level!

[M Greenslade]

Have a look at my picture to the left, this was actually taken by Snapper Baz a few years ago at the first turn at Croix, what you can't see is that we were up above the track by at least 6 foot on a concrete base reached only by a small lader. Despite no other protection it was a perfectly safe place to flag from and offered a great view from both the marshals and drivers view point. Perhaps this is just the way the French do it, either way we had a cracking day out.

Bladders......................

[NotLordPercy]

And once you were up that ladder, it was a complicated job getting you down after 2 large baguettes!! I recall a small hoist was used.......or did Monsieur Manitou assist ??

[M Greenslade]

it was a complicated job getting you down after 2 large baguettes!!

If I remember correctly, one baguette was ham and cheese and the other one was cheese and ham, very tasty!!!

Bladders........

[Dan Friel]

Mr Manitou was probably too busy picking shattered glass out of jambon et fromage sandwich. Never seen so much damage caused by a car spinning into a gravel trap...

[Mr Smith]

A little bit off topic - how do you go about volunteering for Le Mans and is there any minimum experience requirements?

[Bodysnatcher]

it's a bit late on friday Mr Smith, but the quick answers are
it's easy
yes there is
but it can be a bit confusing.
Either search 10ths for more info...
or best of all, find somebody that marshals there (like me) and talk to them...

[Mr Smith]

Bodysnatcher

I have had a bit of a look around and have checked the ACO web site as well but haven't been able to gleen too much info.

I've only started marshaling this year and could do with pointing in the right direction, obviously I'm not looking to run before I can walk and am probably thinking of doing Le Mans in about 2 years.....

Any advise would be great

[Shelagh]

In "my day" you had to be a Red Badge to marshal abroad but don't know how it works under the new system. You will need a letter from the MSA confirming that you can marshal abroad. We get ours as a standard now but assume you have to apply.

Slightly changing topic: I recall spraining my ankle on the "gentle" return up hill from rushing down to deal with a burnt out McLaren F1 and then standing, one-legged, on the track with the oil (slippery surface) flag ahead of the guys dressing the slick.
(And that year, 1997, we covered both sides of the track and had 8.6 seconds to change over)

Aah! - the quirks of working at Le Mans!

[theracegypsy]

Apply via the MSA (the only way ACO will accept UK marshals) by November this year for next year's race. You must be graded above trainee and be below 50 years of age for your first race there.

[Mr Smith]

Thanks for all the advice.... Hopefully by November I'll meet those criteria, and if I haven't upgraded I'ved got a couple of years to comply....