Word from Paris / OFFICIAL: Teams found guilty - Page 3

paul-collins · 29 Jun 2005, 13:41 (Ref:1342849)

No, it's to avoid having the teams go directly to the Riviera.

lusdekkar · 29 Jun 2005, 13:41 (Ref:1342850)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev_205

Will the season have ended before they make a decision on the penalty??
If so the FIA have been very clever in making sure teams don't boycott the next race in protest and that they continue the rest of the season

No, it'll be after the last European race. There'll be 3 more races after it... maybe.

Glen · 29 Jun 2005, 13:42 (Ref:1342851)

Sorry k-b - but why not just join in with the existing thread?

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Jun 2005, 13:42 (Ref:1342852)

Ah that'll be Mickey-the-Shoe's 8th WDC sewn up then.

Kicking-back · 29 Jun 2005, 13:42 (Ref:1342853)

Being sensible, it's so the teams can make some sort of compensation effort, and ensure the situation doesn't happen again.

Probably the right decision.

Kicking-back · 29 Jun 2005, 13:43 (Ref:1342854)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Sorry k-b - but why not just join in with the existing thread?

I hadn't realised the actual ruling was being discussed there - I thought it was just pre-decision speculation.

No point in the actual decision being buried after the predictions.

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 13:45 (Ref:1342855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

The FIA cannot punish Michelin - it is merely a supplier to the teams.

The tyre manufacturers are suppliers to the championship, it is then up to the teams to negotiate with the championship suppliers.

Glen · 29 Jun 2005, 13:45 (Ref:1342856)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Well Ferrari are already signed up with the FIA championship in 2007.
The Michelin runners are not.

Concorde agreement doesn't run out until 2008 I thought. The "Michelin" teams are committed to racing F1 until the agreement expires - Michelin themselves are distinctly dodgy ground though.

I still like the idea of an FIA/unbranded standby fail-safe tyre - any problems in practice, you've got to use that one.

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Jun 2005, 13:46 (Ref:1342857)

Nope I'm too cynical. What will happen if Ferrari are way behind but the penalty is points because let's face it, if it was a fine they could levy it now.

**garcon** · 29 Jun 2005, 13:46 (Ref:1342858)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarmarshal

I have lost all faith in the governing body over this almighty cock up. This situation has sent FIA sanctioned motorsport into crisis all over the world. No one will trust them to act in the interests of safety

Absolute ********.

er, sorry...

[mod]Thankyou for your carefully reasoned and eloquent response on the matter. However, I beg to differ...[/mod]

This farce is not of the FIA's making, and I'm pretty certain anything the FIA did would have brought stinging criticism from one camp or another. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. The FIA still takes the lead very successfully, both in motorsport worldwide and in promoting road safety - one cock-up with tyres by one tyre manufacturer at one F1 GP is hardly enough to bring the entire FIA crashing down. It might be enough to, ahem, limit Michelin's F1 opportunities in the future though...

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 13:48 (Ref:1342859)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Concorde agreement doesn't run out until 2008 I thought. The "Michelin" teams are committed to racing F1 until the agreement expires - Michelin themselves are distinctly dodgy ground though.

I still like the idea of an FIA/unbranded standby fail-safe tyre - any problems in practice, you've got to use that one.

ok 2008, I couldn't remember the year off the top of my head.

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 13:50 (Ref:1342862)

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33284

BSchneiderFan · 29 Jun 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1342864)

Why would the FIA want Ferrari to win the championship(s)? It would be better for the sport if Ferrari didn't win again, so where's the advantage for the FIA in manipulating things to propel Ferrari to the front?

josvandeperre · 29 Jun 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1342865)

And now a few more hours of tension till the teams respond....

Glen · 29 Jun 2005, 13:51 (Ref:1342866)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarmarshal

This situation has sent FIA sanctioned motorsport into crisis all over the world. No one will trust them to act in the interests of safety

So are you saying that the FIA were not acting in the interests of safety when they told the tyre companies very clearly only weeks before that they MUST make safe and durable tyres? Michelin showed a willful disregard for safety for not building in a larger margin for error into their second choice tyre - which is what they were TOLD to do. The teams are guilty because they failed to request the same from Michelin.

Kicking-back · 29 Jun 2005, 13:52 (Ref:1342867)

Thinking about it, the fans in the USA will get their compensation.

Then in September the teams will get no real punishment (maybe a reprimand) and it'll look like Max has made a concession to them.

Quite clever.

Marbot · 29 Jun 2005, 13:53 (Ref:1342868)

Max has requested technical imformation from Michelin as regards its recent tyre wall failures.This will be given to the F.I.A.s technical people and a decision will be made as to whether the tyres are safe.Stewards at Magny cour will be told to exclude any tyres that are deemed to be unsafe.Under article 127 of the sporting code,any vehicle whos construction is thought to be dangerous will be excluded.

It aint over yet.

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1342873)

The decision on punishment has apparently been deferred so as to see what impact the Indy Ticket refund offer has on the image of F1 in the USA

Seems to me a bit like trying to revive a corpse after rigor mortis has set in

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 13:58 (Ref:1342877)

Quote:

Originally Posted by josvandeperre

And now a few more hours of tension till the teams respond....

A few glum faces and sabre rattling about the breakaway series can be expected then

JeremySmith · 29 Jun 2005, 13:58 (Ref:1342878)

I don't get it either? This Ferrari-FIA joined at the hip scenario. We would not want Ferrari to win again this year that is what made fans turn off. So if someone can explain the logic behind Ferrari must win at all costs concept.

ascarmarshal · 29 Jun 2005, 13:59 (Ref:1342879)

The FIA failed to act in the interests of safety with their dangerous tyre rule. Michelin have taken some of the blame but the FIA has to take some as well. I remember the tyre testing days held before each GP. Bring them back so that the tyres can be tested before the meeting

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 14:02 (Ref:1342881)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I don't get it either? This Ferrari-FIA joined at the hip scenario. We would not want Ferrari to win again this year that is what made fans turn off. So if someone can explain the logic behind Ferrari must win at all costs concept.

Ferrari have been in F1 the longest, and get a nice little paycheck from the FIA every year for this.

Ferrari have signed up to the FIA championship in 2008, no one else has.

Ferrari has the largest brand recognition in world motorsport.

The FIA don't care about the fans not wanting Ferrari to win every year, regardless of what the FIA survey results will say when they are published.

Anyone else care to add more fuel to the fire?

paul-collins · 29 Jun 2005, 14:08 (Ref:1342888)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Max has requested technical imformation from Michelin as regards its recent tyre wall failures.This will be given to the F.I.A.s technical people and a decision will be made as to whether the tyres are safe.Stewards at Magny cour will be told to exclude any tyres that are deemed to be unsafe.

Oh, now that's rich.

In the letter everyone keeps citing that the FIA issued about teams ensuring they have a safe tire, Max explicitly says the FIA are not in a position to judge the safety of the tires!

Frankly, I'm getting sick of those who continue to harp on that letter, as it was clearly a case of FIA CYA.

No previous failures of tires had been attributed to construction, only to composition; Michelin had no reason to suspect the issue was in the construction itself, since they had not tested AT INDY.

**Peter Mallett** · 29 Jun 2005, 14:10 (Ref:1342889)

I don't think it is an FIA/Ferrari conspiracy. I believe that the FIA will be forced to make a big decision in September (remember the 1997 MSC debacle) and if the punishment includes points rather than money the outcome will inevitably be an enhancement of Ferrari's position in the championship.

mark_l · 29 Jun 2005, 14:12 (Ref:1342893)

The teams are not really in a position to judge what is a safe tyre, only Michelin and Bridgestone can do that.

I know the FIA employ technical people to check on software and do fuel analysis to ensure the fuel conforms to what has previously been deemed legal, but do they employ tyre technicians who can look into the composition and construction of the tyres used at a circuit.

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