For those who blame JMP on his blow ups...

nickF1 · 13 Oct 2002, 07:39 (Ref:402438)

Whas it Ralf's fault that his engine blew up today? I don't think so. With all the telemetry available you just cannot blame a driver for an engine blow up. don't you think?

cheers

DavidStHubbins · 13 Oct 2002, 07:49 (Ref:402449)

I think JPM was going too slow today to blow up his engine!! Ralf wasted him.

Wrex · 13 Oct 2002, 07:51 (Ref:402454)

Hmmm, I must say, I would'nt draw attention to JPM's performance today. Pretty average for what some say is 'the best driver' in F1.

Sato san · 13 Oct 2002, 07:58 (Ref:402464)

fair to say that JPM's day wasnt the best of days i agree.

but....on the engine topic , looking forward to reading Jukebox's comments on whether RAlf's engine was Ralfs fault or not .

Personally , i dont think it had anything to do with Ralf , but then i had the same opinion about Jpm/s faliures also .

Wrex · 13 Oct 2002, 08:00 (Ref:402467)

Quote:

Originally posted by Sato san
Personally , i dont think it had anything to do with Ralf , but then i had the same opinion about Jpm/s faliures also .

Agreed. The idea that with all this technology teams can't see when an engine is being pushed too hard, is ridiculious.

z2252314 · 13 Oct 2002, 08:01 (Ref:402468)

Ive never blamed JPM for engine blowups, I have however had a go at his lack of consistency. Montoya will be great one race, and poor in the next three. He needs to improve a lot if he's hoping to be a WDC.

DavidStHubbins · 13 Oct 2002, 08:08 (Ref:402475)

I think when they talk about engine blow ups they are referring to the fact that Ralf doesnt use much engine braking whereas Jenson Button (when at williams) and JPm do use the engine more to slow them down. That was how the WIlliams crew described it when Jenson was at the team.

f1manoz · 13 Oct 2002, 08:14 (Ref:402487)

Come on people, the BMW's have been blowing up consistently all year, despite who's driving the bloody car.

They've said Williams have got to pick up their game. How about following some of your own advice BMW?

Oh, and Ralf was having the better weekend before that. JPM just, well, wasn't on it...

Don K · 13 Oct 2002, 09:04 (Ref:402552)

I was told that Ralf didn't use all his rounds during todays Warm Up. (But I just saw at Tag Heurer's site that Montoya did only 8 laps, whereas Ralf did 11).
Considering the fact that Ralf went from 5 to 4 during the race, with Montoya just holding on to his position, I would say that Ralf was probably pushing his car more than JPM today.

On the other hand, looking at the pre-Japan standings (JPM 47, Ralf 42, Coulthard 41) I would expect Coulthard to push hardest, and Montoya to take less risks.

With Coulthard in third position, Ralf had to overtake him to keep ahead in the WDC (4th place would leave him at 1-1-4-3-2-0 against Davids 1-1-5-1-2-2). David would need to keep his 3rd place to gain 4th place in the WDC, or go for 2nd or 1st if he wanted to gain 3rd place.

After David's gearbox had gone, Ralf was in third place with Montoya in 5th. At this point, Ralf already had secured his 4th place in the WDC (and Williams' 2nd place in the WCC was also fixed). So he could only hope for Michael and/or Rubens to retire: With a 2nd place, he could take 3rd if JPM wouldn't finish within the top 5, and with a win he could take 3rd if JPM would not finish in 2nd place.
Given his position in the race and the championship, Montoya had no reason at all to push. All he had to do, was to stay in the race, and keep ahead of Trulli, Sato and Button.

To be short, IMO in this race the proper strategy would be:
- For Coulthard, to push at maximum, even taking the risk of not finishing.
- For Ralf, to try to push moderately as long as David was still in the race; and after David's retirement, to push at maximum even taking the risk of not finishing.
- For Montoya, to finish the race, staying well ahead of everyone from the other teams, and trying to keep reasonably close to Ralf and/or Raikkonen.
Which is exactly what they did.

Damon · 13 Oct 2002, 09:33 (Ref:402581)

No, it wasn't JPM's best race but he did exactly what many of you suggested to should have done at Monza, he sat back and consolidated his position as he knew it was enough for P3 in the WDC.

Total-F1 · 13 Oct 2002, 09:56 (Ref:402596)

This IS JPM being consistent.

Come on, what do we prefer - all-out charges that end in tears nine times out of ten, or a good solid drive to fourth?

Sodemo · 13 Oct 2002, 11:51 (Ref:402700)

I prefer all out charges that end in tears actually - love it!

Sato san · 13 Oct 2002, 11:53 (Ref:402704)

so do i !......cant beat it....

but then some people cant knock him for a sloid drive when they knock him for the oppersite most of the time either.

Liz · 13 Oct 2002, 12:40 (Ref:402771)

Me too, like Gilles said, "I'd rather lead the most laps and crash than crawl home to a safe 5th place."

If you want to see people crawl home safely, suggest to Bernie that they get paid by the number of laps they complete.

Damon · 13 Oct 2002, 12:45 (Ref:402778)

And even though he was charging most of the year he still managed 3rd so it obviously doesn't end in tears that often.

Mr V · 13 Oct 2002, 13:28 (Ref:402821)

Quote:

Originally posted by Damon
No, it wasn't JPM's best race but he did exactly what many of you suggested to should have done at Monza, he sat back and consolidated his position as he knew it was enough for P3 in the WDC.

He admitted after the race that this was his aim.....i would usually love to see JPM going for it, but under the circumstances i can understand why. The team also told him to back off after Rafes engine blew.

Red · 13 Oct 2002, 14:53 (Ref:402881)

Lemme guess..... saving the engine and displaying a dull race is good when "given the circumstances"...? I thought that the entire game has 17 rounds and actually the circumstances do not change during the season. Now guys, you really confuse me. I could understand that trying hard to beat Ferrari, and breaking the car in the process is good thing, but being beaten by an almost teenager in a McLaren (while saving the engine) is better?

Don't get me wrong, for once Pablo did have a race strategy and I salute this...

I just want to understand the rules here...

**Peter Mallett** · 13 Oct 2002, 15:25 (Ref:402905)

I said before. He's boring when he uses his head and he was today. Still again a solid drive got him the points at the expense of his equally talented teammate.

And Liz. We've discussed GV's quote before and it falls down when you look at Jarama '79 (I think). I recall he held the entire field back for the whole race and didn't once push the car over the limit. And he was slooooooooooooow.

MA2 · 13 Oct 2002, 15:27 (Ref:402909)

Actually, most of you don't understand racing!

Don K · 13 Oct 2002, 15:39 (Ref:402919)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Lemme guess..... saving the engine and displaying a dull race is good when "given the circumstances"...? I thought that the entire game has 17 rounds and actually the circumstances do not change during the season. Now guys, you really confuse me. I could understand that trying hard to beat Ferrari, and breaking the car in the process is good thing, but being beaten by an almost teenager in a McLaren (while saving the engine) is better?

Don't get me wrong, for once Pablo did have a race strategy and I salute this... I just want to understand the rules here...

In the end, both Ralf and JPM did beat both McLarens. And both Ralf and JPM were beaten by both Ferraris.
I would say a 3rd place in the WDC is better than a fourth place, so according to my standards JPM's strategy worked better this year.
On the other hand, many people (probably including a lot of the JPM supporters at this forum) would value a race victory higher. So according to their standards, Ralf's strategy worked better this year.

Jordi · 13 Oct 2002, 15:40 (Ref:402921)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I said before. He's boring when he uses his head and he was today. Still again a solid drive got him the points at the expense of his equally talented teammate.

And Liz. We've discussed GV's quote before and it falls down when you look at Jarama '79 (I think). I recall he held the entire field back for the whole race and didn't once push the car over the limit. And he was slooooooooooooow.

It was in 1981... and Gilles was in the lead. You have to be smart when you're in the lead, but I think you can't be blamed for pushing hard while trying to get it...

In Juan Pablo's situation, well, if he couldn't go any further up in the order, why push? But if he can go further up, why shouldn't he push?

ASCII Man · 13 Oct 2002, 15:44 (Ref:402924)

Quote:

Originally posted by MA2
Actually, most of you don't understand racing!

Ok then, enlighten us with your endless racin' "wisdom"!

Wisdom that includes racing 100 year old tractors around the hillside doesn't count!

Chasing pigs doesn't count either!

Hillbilly wisdom doesn't count... anywhere!

steve nielsen · 13 Oct 2002, 15:46 (Ref:402925)

I think they said JPM pushed the boost button to often in 1 race in the past, it can only be used a few times.

Mr V · 13 Oct 2002, 17:03 (Ref:402972)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Lemme guess..... saving the engine and displaying a dull race is good when "given the circumstances"...?

Works for Ferrari doesn't it?

Sato san · 13 Oct 2002, 17:20 (Ref:402983)

look..it simple.....most of us like to see JPM race with his heart rather than always with his head like certain other drivers who make you want to sleep whilst watching a GP.....

but , if certain members of the forum knock the Columbian for never doing the sensible thing when his car isnt a match for those in front , they cant turn it around now that he has done the sensible thing .

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