GTE/GTLM 2016 discussion

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

My understanding is the the other mfgs must agree to waivers, so how could they be 'narked' about something that they agreed to?

Are you sure about this? I could be wrong (I'm not well-known for knowing about GTs), but if it's true why would they have allowed the M3/Z4 to compete? We know they needed a fair few more waivers than the other cars.

Perhaps they aren't willing to let it go for a third time in succession.

[FormulaFox]

Mark calendars: Callaway C7 GT3 to be unveiled October 3rd.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Pretty much; the other manufacturers are also pretty narked at BMW's liberal use of waivers to get their GT3 cars into GTE.

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

My understanding is the the other mfgs must agree to waivers, so how could they be 'narked' about something that they agreed to?

L.P.

If they are narked, they won't agree to them in the first place, hence the possibility being discussed here (I haven't seen it elsewhere) that the program may not see the green light.

[MoMedic9019]

1. Other manufactuers are not privy to the waivers granted. The ACO and OEM are the only ones who know.

2. There is significant displeasure in the idea of a GT3 car being allowed into GTLM(again). The Z4 was no different. This time, other OEM's are very serious about it.

3. This program in terms of GTLM may never work. When rumours about that teams will walk, it's serious business. IMSA would be stupid to not pay attention again. (ESM)

[GingerPixel]

They don't make it easy do they. I like to considder myself a pretty avid fan of GT racing, but I could not explain the differences between GT3/GTE/GTD/GTLM to someone. It's hardly accessible.

[PointDSM]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

They don't make it easy do they. I like to considder myself a pretty avid fan of GT racing, but I could not explain the differences between GT3/GTE/GTD/GTLM to someone. It's hardly accessible.

GT3 - Globally-recognized sports car class, street car made into a race car
GTD - Same as GT3 but only recognized in United States, spec aero package and other parts, more cost, slower lap times
GTLM - United States Version of GTE (LeMans GT class)
GTE-Pro - Same as GTLM
GTE-AM - Same as Pro but with an Amateur Driver and at least 1 year old cars.

That takes all of two minutes to explain and get's them interested and asking questions.

[Bob Baldwin]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

GT3 - Globally-recognized sports car class, street car made into a race car
GTD - Same as GT3 but only recognized in United States, spec aero package and other parts, more cost, slower lap times
GTLM - United States Version of GTE (LeMans GT class)
GTE-Pro - Same as GTLM
GTE-AM - Same as Pro but with an Amateur Driver and at least 1 year old cars.

That takes all of two minutes to explain and get's them interested and asking questions.

TRY explaining that to a Potential Sponsor

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

TRY explaining that to a Potential Sponsor

He just did.








L.P.

[Bob Baldwin]

Horndawg :

My point being that IF you are a Sportscar Fan , Yes you do know the difference between classes .

However IF you are a casual race fan OR an Unimformed Copr Marketing Mgr you MAY know differences between Generic Porsche , Ferrari , Lambo , Aston etc BUT Race Classes ? Often times it leads to more than a 2 minute disertation to explain the class structures .

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

GT3 - Globally-recognized sports car class, street car made into a race car
GTD - Same as GT3 but only recognized in United States, spec aero package and other parts, more cost, slower lap times
GTLM - United States Version of GTE (LeMans GT class)
GTE-Pro - Same as GTLM
GTE-AM - Same as Pro but with an Amateur Driver and at least 1 year old cars.

That takes all of two minutes to explain and get's them interested and asking questions.

It does not take 2 minutes to explain this to a motorsport amateur at all. It's easy and fine for someone who knows motorsport, but if you're just getting into it then that's a complete mess of letters that doesn't mean much to anyone but us anoraks. My wife has been getting into motorsport for the last 2 years and finds it very hard to understand the mess of GT classes.

GTD and GT3 are not really "the same". They can be quite different. And why is it called GT3? Well...because the other 2 died, and one got renamed and this one didn't. And they aren't really street based either. The Bentley is basically a prototype in GT form.

GTLM - GT Le Mans. But not really Le Mans because some cars won't go there, and the series which uses the "GTLM" name doesn't go to Le Mans.

GTE Pro - The series which uses this, DOES go to Le Mans, but doesn't call the cars GTLM. These are the same as GTLM. Except BMW and other stuff that isn't legit outside of America. So the same, with a * in there.

And why can't they be raced all together at Le Mans? Because 2 French people won't talk to each other properly and the Americans want cars in the series that are 'less than legal'.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Horndawg :

My point being that IF you are a Sportscar Fan , Yes you do know the difference between classes .

However IF you are a casual race fan OR an Unimformed Copr Marketing Mgr you MAY know differences between Generic Porsche , Ferrari , Lambo , Aston etc BUT Race Classes ? Often times it leads to more than a 2 minute disertation to explain the class structures .

If you are a corporate marketing mgr. then the depth of the explanation of what you are potentially allocating funds for would need to be much deeper, no matter WHAT was being discussed.







L.P.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

GTLM - United States Version of GTE (LeMans GT class)
GTE-Pro - Same as GTLM

With this kind of circular logic you could work for the ACO!

[Deleted]

Used to be easy

GT1 - Regulated Division I for expensive, high performance and heavily modified GT, factories and privateers
GT2 - Regulated Division II for moderate range reasonably priced GT, factories and privateers
GT3 - BoP GT, privateers
GT4 - cheap and slow entry level GT, privateers
Rolex GT - tubeframer Nascar GTs

Now everything is like a collectible comic book with cover variants, different from distance but in reality identical when you actually open it. All perform about the same and bop themselves constantly without real regulations

[lms]

Originally Posted by TF110

Sad if true. I like the bmw's on the grid! More competition the merrier.

except when someone wants to bring taxis to a gt class. dump it in tusc.

[Bob Baldwin]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Used to be easy

GT1 - Regulated Division I for expensive, high performance and heavily modified GT, factories and privateers
GT2 - Regulated Division II for moderate range reasonably priced GT, factories and privateers
GT3 - BoP GT, privateers
GT4 - cheap and slow entry level GT, privateers
Rolex GT - tubeframer Nascar GTs

Now everything is like a collectible comic book with cover variants, different from distance but in reality identical when you actually open it. All perform about the same and bop themselves constantly without real regulations

Chiana : In the USA , would you describe the Conti Series as GT 4's ?

[Deleted]

No

Although there are some GT4s in GS

In any case it may be entry level set of categories in CTSCC, but it's not globally recognized

[carbsmith]

It sure was nice when GT1 was for supercars, GT2 was for large displacement/turbocharged sports cars, and GT3 was for small bore cars rather than having all three crammed into one class (twice)

Then

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Horndawg :

My point being that IF you are a Sportscar Fan , Yes you do know the difference between classes .

However IF you are a casual race fan OR an Unimformed Copr Marketing Mgr you MAY know differences between Generic Porsche , Ferrari , Lambo , Aston etc BUT Race Classes ? Often times it leads to more than a 2 minute disertation to explain the class structures .

Just tell the casual race fans there all GT cars. If they ask why some look different and/or are slower/quicker. Tell them there are 2 classes, each with their own rulebook. The quicker class is for manufacturers, the slower class is for business people with a lot of money.

This is definitely not the whole picture. But simple enough to understand for most people.

[Deleted]

Yeah the 90s system was good. And even after the old GT1 died the then-GT2 and then-GT3 just got promoted by one position instead of people messing it up by having every egg in the same basket. And both classes distinctively different

I once had to explain the class structure of Spa 24 to my dad, you know back in the day when it was just GT1+GT2+National-specials, how much more simple it was. Also you could tell apart them fairly easily visually, now every GTE/GT3/Challenge-Cup-Trophy-Trofeo looks the same and produces roughly same speed and there are no exotics

In essence it's just the same as with the uber confusing single seater ladder now, when in the past it was just F1 F2 F3 or F3000

[Articus]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

My understanding is the the other mfgs must agree to waivers, so how could they be 'narked' about something that they agreed to?




L.P.

Its a bit silly because its not good for the series and compeition to have less competitors. The class is already losing the Falken porsche and we lost the vipers. How else will you convert BMW fans into Ford/Porsche/Ferrari fans? There is a certain usefulness in letting the BMWs race.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Articus

Its a bit silly because its not good for the series and compeition to have less competitors. The class is already losing the Falken porsche and we lost the vipers. How else will you convert BMW fans into Ford/Porsche/Ferrari fans? There is a certain usefulness in letting the BMWs race.

So you just **** off the mfgs that you have? Then when they leave because of it, and you lose competitors, what then? Cutting off your nose to spite your face, is silly!






L.P.

[Accident]

I'm mixed on it... Part of me feels it's about time they were told to go home if they won't build a car that even makes an effort to fit into the class, but the other part of me wants the competition on the grid.

[Mt. Lynx]

This is why I feel the GT3 way is more viable in the long run. Sure, a fixed rule set a la GTE is nice, but if noone wants to build cars for it, then what can you do?
IMHO, the ACO should just suck it up, and ditch GTE in favour of GT3 machinery.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Mt. Lynx

This is why I feel the GT3 way is more viable in the long run. Sure, a fixed rule set a la GTE is nice, but if noone wants to build cars for it, then what can you do?
IMHO, the ACO should just suck it up, and ditch GTE in favour of GT3 machinery.

Because GTE is a mfgs class and GT3 is a tuner class (predominantly). Also the mfgs and ACO do not wish to relinquish control of the rules. GTE/GTLM seems to be just fine as a class at the moment as subscribers go. There were 14 GTEs at COTA and 8 GTLMs with Ford on the way with 2 cars for both.




L.P.

[MaskedRacer]

With GTLM getting faster we could have some interesting overall dynamics in 2016 with P, LMPC, and GTLM being pretty close together. This a good thing folks! Why would anybody be against this?