IMSA DPi Discussion

[TF110]

Mazda is the best lmp2 car right now. But next year every team has a p2 coupled with the pro drivers in current dp teams. Mazda can't even win right now with the fastest car, how are they going to do it when everyone else has the 'same' car?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by TF110

Mazda is the best lmp2 car right now. But next year every team has a p2 coupled with the pro drivers in current dp teams. Mazda can't even win right now with the fastest car, how are they going to do it when everyone else has the 'same' car?

And why pray tell does that have anything to do with "BoP talking point"s? Other than to just stir the pot, now and then.







L.P.

[Maelochs]

I for one am really glad to see Jeoren Bleekemolen finally getting a Prototype ride. I hope the team and car are up to standard, and the BoP is fair. I have wanted to see him up front for quite a few years now. He is seriously quick, and generally smart as well.

Eight-car top class .... meh. Used to it, not thrilled about it, but it only takes two to race .... though it is nice if there is at least a Little mystery about who might win. On the other hand, anything beats the Ganassi uber Alles days.

So, yeah ... Action Express Sports Car Championship, Version IV, is what I expect.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And why pray tell does that have anything to do with "BoP talking point"s? Other than to just stir the pot, now and then.







L.P.

Save it. I'm not going to fall into another pointless argument over defending the series or criticizing it. If all cars are supposed to be equal and Mazda or others can't get a win the bop talk will be back no matter if you like it or not. Some cars will be better and they should be if they're designed to be. But I don't think that will be the opinion of drivers or fans (at least here) if we see only one car winning.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I for one am really glad to see Jeoren Bleekemolen finally getting a Prototype ride. I hope the team and car are up to standard, and the BoP is fair. I have wanted to see him up front for quite a few years now. He is seriously quick, and generally smart as well.

Eight-car top class .... meh. Used to it, not thrilled about it, but it only takes two to race .... though it is nice if there is at least a Little mystery about who might win. On the other hand, anything beats the Ganassi uber Alles days.

So, yeah ... Action Express Sports Car Championship, Version IV, is what I expect.

Bleekemolen is my favorite driver and it will be good to see him in protos stateside. He has plenty of experience in lmp2 so the transition shouldn't be a problem for him. Can't wait to see that Riley in "regular" form as well.

[HORNDAWG]

Seems Core will be bringing an Oreca 07 to put up against the DPis.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...s-in-2017.html








L.P.

[TzeiTzei]

Look set...most likely...expecting... it wouldn't be a sportscar article without the standard vocabulary.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Seems Core will be bringing an Oreca 07 to put up against the DPis. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...s-in-2017.html

Awesome. Colin Braun is another driver I have long wanted to see in a top-tier ride, and Core Can, if it wants, run a car as well as any other team (I mean, Porsche chose them to run its GTLM effort---that's pretty high praise.)

Sure, it might not happen---but it makes sense. Core can either drop to GTD or step up. I cannot see them going to GTLM because they (basically) already have two cars in GTLM ... so DPi makes sense, and with the Trueman Aiken trophy (and Le Mans invite .... )

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Awesome. Colin Braun is another driver I have long wanted to see in a top-tier ride, and Core Can, if it wants, run a car as well as any other team (I mean, Porsche chose them to run its GTLM effort---that's pretty high praise.)

Sure, it might not happen---but it makes sense. Core can either drop to GTD or step up. I cannot see them going to GTLM because they (basically) already have two cars in GTLM ... so DPi makes sense, and with the Trueman Aiken trophy (and Le Mans invite .... )

Maybe we'll see a much smaller LMPC grid in 2017 then too :-). A closed cockpit car in the CORE colors will look pretty good. Plus if IMSA does get their BoP right between the pure LMP2 cars and the DPI's then Bruan and Bleekomolen will be pole contenders at every race.

[Rodger Davies]

If Core and Starworks do move up to the top class, to me that goes a long way towards justifying the removal of the PC class. Hope they have drivers with the budget to do so and the 'am' trophy receives the coverage these teams and drivers deserve.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Plus if IMSA does get their BoP right between the pure LMP2 cars and the DPI's then Bruan and Bleekomolen will be pole contenders at every race.

Except we probably won't be seeing them in the cars for qualifying at the regular events, since the starting driver is the qualifying driver and no teams want to use their amateur driver as the closing driver.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Accident

Except we probably won't be seeing them in the cars for qualifying at the regular events, since the starting driver is the qualifying driver and no teams want to use their amateur driver as the closing driver.

Rules can change if the teams ask. But it will be interesting to see team strategy since there is no drive time requirements in Protos. A single stint for the am makes the most sense, and given the likelihood of yellows in imsa races, an early am stint could keep the car in the mix.

[hondafan37]

Cadillac, Mazda, Riley, Oreca, Just need Ligier.
It is a pity that IMSA decided not give a right BOP to the Ligier-Honda 2016,
I would like to see this (Michael Shank and possibly ESM) with the new cars.

About Mazda I see very fragile the engine, and the next year with 100 HP more it could be worse.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Cadillac, Mazda, Riley, Oreca, Just need Ligier.
It is a pity that IMSA decided not give a right BOP to the Ligier-Honda 2016,
I would like to see this (Michael Shank and possibly ESM) with the new cars.

About Mazda I see very fragile the engine, and the next year with 100 HP more it could be worse.

MSR and ESM will need new cars regardless. Mazda, and IMSA cars as a whole, are not 100hp down. Mazda's woes have not all been engine, in fact had they not messed up on pit strategy at Road America it seemed as they had the field covered.







L.P.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Cadillac, Mazda, Riley, Oreca, Just need Ligier.

Two Ligiers are coming to IMSA - as long as the series doesn't do something to expressly screw the team over, that is.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Cadillac, Mazda, Riley, Oreca, Just need Ligier.
It is a pity that IMSA decided not give a right BOP to the Ligier-Honda 2016,
I would like to see this (Michael Shank and possibly ESM) with the new cars.

About Mazda I see very fragile the engine, and the next year with 100 HP more it could be worse.

Yes, because a car that has won three races this year, and the first two enduros have the wrong bop.

Give me a break.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes, because a car that has won three races this year, and the first two enduros have the wrong bop.

Give me a break.

You could have asked what the poster meant by wrong bop, and mentioned that the car had won races. That would have come across as a lot less rude.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes, because a car that has won three races this year, and the first two enduros have the wrong bop.

Give me a break.

They do not have the BOP wrong now.
They Will have 100 hp less the next year because the old cars (actually)maintain the current configuration.

[chernaudi]

Only thing wrong with the Ligier Honda in IMSA right now is that they're saddled by MSR's choice of a pro-am driver line up. Pew has rarely been on pace and Negri has rarely been fast enough on his own to make up the difference.

Next year, though, if MSR stay in DPI, they're going to at the very least need a new car, as the newer-spec stock block engine cars will be getting power breaks to allow them to keep pace with the Gibson powered cars which will have around 600bhp per ACO and IMSA regs. Older spec cars, unless something changes between now and the start of the 2017 season, will be essentially kept as is now next season.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Seems Core will be bringing an Oreca 07 to put up against the DPis.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...s-in-2017.html

Or are they?

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/co...-with-porsche/

Is CORE trying to confuse all of us? (if so they're doing a great job!). Personally I think a GTD campaign makes more sense, especially with the recent Porsche withdrawals in that class - but I prefer seeing them go with a top class prototype!

Curious to see how this pans out.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Only thing wrong with the Ligier Honda in IMSA right now is that they're saddled by MSR's choice of a pro-am driver line up. Pew has rarely been on pace and Negri has rarely been fast enough on his own to make up the difference.

Next year, though, if MSR stay in DPI, they're going to at the very least need a new car, as the newer-spec stock block engine cars will be getting power breaks to allow them to keep pace with the Gibson powered cars which will have around 600bhp per ACO and IMSA regs. Older spec cars, unless something changes between now and the start of the 2017 season, will be essentially kept as is now next season.

What's the current estimated output of the HPD engine as being run this year?

[chernaudi]

I'd guess somewhere a bit above GTLM/GTE, so about 500bhp, maybe up to about 520. The main reason for the larger displacement of the HPD engine was to boost torque without a huge turbo boost increase.

[Coach Ep]

To answer my own question () I did some digging:

Michael Shank Racing will test Honda's 3.5-liter twin-turbo V6 Daytona Prototype engine for the first time with its Ligier JS P2 chassis later this month at Daytona International Speedway. Under recent IMSA provisions, Honda's 3.5L DP motor has been approved as a replacement for the ACO-spec 2.8-liter twin-turbo V6 powerplant Shank and other Prototype teams utilized through the 2015 season.

With the added displacement, more than 600 hp should be on tap, and thanks to Honda Performance Development's efforts to pare weight from the engine, the 3.5L unit is expected to have a favorable impact on the Ligier's handling.

from http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/12333...onda-dp-engine

Sounds like the power output of both current (under IMSA rules) and new P2 engines is rather similar. Or at least for the HPD 3.5L one.

[Maelochs]

ESM had Derani, who made a joke of BoP. MSR made a mess of many things in every race, sadly ... another great shoot-your-foot (hit-the-curb, whatever) story.

But the Ligier was quick when it was well set-up and well-driven. I seem to recall it featuring in a couple podium ceremonies early on ....


Methinks Scott Sharp, Johannes van Overbeek, and Pipo Derani like their hats.

No one knows much about next year yet, except that anyone who is serious about winning will need a real DPi and not a grandfathered and hamstrung P2.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

No one knows much about next year yet, except that anyone who is serious about winning will need a real DPi and not a grandfathered and hamstrung P2.

Or a new P2 - don't forget that IMSA views ACO-spec P2s as P2s, not DPis. (which is why some people don't trust them to adhere to their insistence that BoP will be set to match new-P2 performance)

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

ESM had Derani, who made a joke of BoP. MSR made a mess of many things in every race, sadly ... another great shoot-your-foot (hit-the-curb, whatever) story.

But the Ligier was quick when it was well set-up and well-driven. I seem to recall it featuring in a couple podium ceremonies early on ....

Methinks Scott Sharp, Johannes van Overbeek, and Pipo Derani like their hats.

No one knows much about next year yet, except that anyone who is serious about winning will need a real DPi and not a grandfathered and hamstrung P2.

ESM has Oak Racing effectively running everything whilst MSR (except for LM where thet also had Oak assistance) only has some half assed HPD "support"