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Old 17 Apr 2019, 22:17 (Ref:3898300)   #476
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That is genuine talent and a little left field

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Old 17 Apr 2019, 22:23 (Ref:3898301)   #477
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rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!
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That is genuine talent and a little left field

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Bit different from what he’s raced in the past but he’s got the talent to learn quickly. Be exciting to see how he goes.
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 07:28 (Ref:3898347)   #478
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wonder where the money is coming from for some of these deals?
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 07:31 (Ref:3898348)   #479
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Chances are it could be, yeah. I doubt motorsport would have a category that was mentioned in mainstream sports like supercars is and has been. My opinion only.

Brock, Moffat or Johnson and their motor racing exploits weren't mainstream 30-40 years ago?
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 08:58 (Ref:3898355)   #480
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Wonder where the money is coming from for some of these deals?
It's cheaper than AusGT and significantly cheaper than Super2, according to the figures I'm hearing.
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 09:09 (Ref:3898356)   #481
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
When someone bins one properly let's see how much cheaper they are...

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Old 18 Apr 2019, 09:16 (Ref:3898358)   #482
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Same could be said for GT3 in particular.
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 09:29 (Ref:3898362)   #483
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
No doubt, but I think it isn't beyond imagination to throw away a TCR car, after a good enough shunt. Still costs less than a, small prang in a GT3 Gallardo though..

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Old 18 Apr 2019, 09:34 (Ref:3898363)   #484
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Of the 800+ that have been built, only a relatively small handful have been scrapped.
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Old 18 Apr 2019, 23:25 (Ref:3898469)   #485
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Well TCR have enough cars and luckily not many of them have been in accidents
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 09:31 (Ref:3898547)   #486
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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When someone bins one properly let's see how much cheaper they are...
Structural repair costs should be similar to an Improved Production class car.

The cars are essentially Improved Production cars, but with internally stock engines, slick tyres instead of R-compound and paddle shifting allowed (instead of only H-pattern transmissions -- be they OEM or an aftermarket racing gearbox -- in Improved Production).

The purchase cost of the car, for that matter, is unlikely to be any greater than the cost to hire a professional team to build and engineer an Improved Production car to a similar standard of preparation.
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Old 19 Apr 2019, 23:42 (Ref:3898672)   #487
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The cars are essentially Improved Production cars, but with internally stock engines, slick tyres instead of R-compound and paddle shifting allowed (instead of only H-pattern transmissions -- be they OEM or an aftermarket racing gearbox -- in Improved Production).
130k Euro for a production car you say?

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The purchase cost of the car, for that matter, is unlikely to be any greater than the cost to hire a professional team to build and engineer an Improved Production car to a similar standard of preparation.
Truth be told, if you took a Golf GTI, and spend half of 130k Euro you'd end up with someone WAY faster than a TCR car.

IP has its own problems, in that it was designed to be relatively cost effective but the competitors are their own worst enemies, I was around when the initial rules were drafted, and through the death of a thousand paper cuts these things are basically sports sedans now, which wasn't the intention when the class was founded.
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 01:53 (Ref:3898679)   #488
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Agreed, IPRA is losing the plot with its rules.

Sequential transmissions, pedal boxes, fabricated rear diff housings, rules bent to allow previously-ineligible body shapes...
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 03:31 (Ref:3898691)   #489
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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130k Euro for a [Improved Production] car you say?
Yes! Why is that so hard to believe? The bog-standard production engine is possibly one of the cheapest parts of the whole car, it's everything else on the car that is expensive...
  • Honda K20C1 2.0 Type R engine - €5800 (these are available as a crate engine and the price is $US6,519.87 which I've converted to EUR).
  • JAS-Motorsport intake, intercooler and exhaust system - say €5,000
  • MoTeC ECU & dash - say €5,000
  • Sadev racing gearbox with paddle shift kit - €18,000
  • Ohlins remote reservoir racing coilovers - say €15,000
  • JAS-Motorsport fabricated rose-jointed control arms - say €10,000
  • AP Racing big brake kit - say €10,000
  • Carbon-fibre bodykit - say €20,000?
  • Pedal box - say €3,000
  • Carbon-fibre race seat - €1,500
  • Carbon-fibre dashboard - €1,500
  • Roll cage - say €10,000
  • 1 set OZ Racing 18x10" wheels included - €5,000?
  • OEM bodyshell pressings and panels including glass and light fixtures - say €10,000
  • Fuel cell & fuel pumps - €2,000
  • Labour including paint and assembly - that's the big one!
https://jasmotorsport.com/racing-car...civic-tcr-2018

The sum of the parts costs alone, without assembly and paint, is ~~€121,800 by my guesstimate.

The price seems perfectly reasonable for what you get, don't you think?

Like I said to build a Improved Production car with similar parts (Ohlins suspension, AP Racing brakes, carbon-fibre bodykit, fabricated control arms, MoTeC ECU etc) and pay for the labour for a professional team to build it, would cost just as much don't you agree?

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Truth be told, if you took a Golf GTI, and spend half of 130k Euro you'd end up with someone WAY faster than a TCR car.
But that's time attack not touring car racing! Below, they claim 800hp at 24psi on a Honda K24A3 which seems an excessive amount of power to feed through the front wheels, it must be said... It seems unlikely reliability of the time attack car is at the level of the only lightly fettled motor in the TCR...

Plus, I am far from convinced it would be "half the price" as you still need virtually all the same stuff you needed for the TCR car.


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Old 20 Apr 2019, 03:37 (Ref:3898692)   #490
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think there's an eye-watering markup in the prices of these things, but I guess like GT3 cars, if the team has to homologate without manufacturer money they have to make their money back.

Time will tell how badly the local importers try to bleed people for parts. One of them at least has form.

So I think the purchase price is not necessarily good value, so we'll see what the ongoing costs are like.

4 weeks to the race, and we haven't got sponsors, liveries, or even 1/4 of the drivers announced yet.

One hopes there's going to be announcements just about every day from here on in... Or will we see a UK-style 7 cars?
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 04:04 (Ref:3898694)   #491
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If I had a VAG product, I certainly wouldn't be buying through MPC.
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 06:29 (Ref:3898706)   #492
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Well TCR have enough cars and luckily not many of them have been in accidents
Wanna Bet Video Here
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 06:41 (Ref:3898707)   #493
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Both SLR Golfs were scrapped after that.
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 06:44 (Ref:3898708)   #494
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Both SLR Golfs were scrapped after that.
Somebody from here will probably buy them as ‘projects’...
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 07:15 (Ref:3898710)   #495
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Shhh...
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 22:43 (Ref:3898810)   #496
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I think there's an eye-watering markup in the prices of these things, but I guess like GT3 cars, if the team has to homologate without manufacturer money they have to make their money back.

Time will tell how badly the local importers try to bleed people for parts. One of them at least has form.

So I think the purchase price is not necessarily good value, so we'll see what the ongoing costs are like.

4 weeks to the race, and we haven't got sponsors, liveries, or even 1/4 of the drivers announced yet.

One hopes there's going to be announcements just about every day from here on in... Or will we see a UK-style 7 cars?
A little worrying.

Tonnes of hype, but no substance yet
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 23:00 (Ref:3898811)   #497
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Used cars out of Europe are fine until someone buys the latest toy, rendering the rest uncompetitive.
It happened in SuperTouring... it will happen here...
Is that really a bad thing from a fan perspective?

After a year or two there is a new latest toy, someone buys that and we have another new winner. In my opinion that keeps things fresh and new, and when the rules are unsuitable, something new comes along again.

The alternative is a VE Commodore racing and winning from 2007-2012, or the same model Nissan Altima winning a race in 2013 and in 2018...

Just my opinion and not the popular one of course
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Old 20 Apr 2019, 23:28 (Ref:3898812)   #498
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
You missed a 4 year old FG-X winning the championship... And who didn't upgrade from VE to VEII?

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Old 21 Apr 2019, 01:18 (Ref:3898817)   #499
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VE II was just a styling change to the headlights, grille, and a subtle change to the bootlid between the taillights.

Not significant enough to mention.

As I mentioned before, no matter how good the latest TCR machine might be, BOP will take care of it.
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Old 21 Apr 2019, 06:32 (Ref:3898832)   #500
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If I had a VAG product, I certainly wouldn't be buying through MPC.
MPC To Provide Trackside TCR Motorsport Parts Service

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