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Old 24 Jan 2019, 09:29 (Ref:3878138)   #1
Mixer
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Rose coloured glasses

So I recently watched the 2000 Canberra race as part of the classics that had been playing (I recorded it).

First thing I had to comment on was just the difference in the cars, still have production dashes and so on, and they were really unruly beasts to drive. The cars we have now are so on rails, they have just become so refined by comparison. It was great to see guys really muscling the cars around, and drifting them in a way you just couldn't do now. Canberra was rough as guts too.

The other thing though is just how much better the driving standards are now. People bemoan the officials getting involved but back then it was so much more common for people to just outright block, even for lapped traffic, and the amount of punting that was going on is way more than now.

I also have the say as much as people moan about the commentary now, it is just so much more professional than it was back then. I really miss Mark Oastler in the commentary box, he was the last of the "old school" professional callers in my view, and I dearly loved Barry Sheene (still missed), but the standard of commentary compared to now was just nowhere near as good. Crompo and Skaife are really on the ball, no dead air, no umms and uhhs of amazement.

I do really miss this era of racing, and the old guard who were still racing then, privateers and so on. But it is a moment in time, and we can't go back to it.

So I miss the old days, but we've also never had it so good.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 09:47 (Ref:3878149)   #2
Umai Naa
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I'm inclined to agree.

I too, occasionally dig back through the archives and binge-watch a season or two from 15-20-25 years ago.

I'm confident we'll all look back on what we've got now, with a similar level of fondness, when in 15-20-25 years time, the whole show has evolved into something else.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 10:23 (Ref:3878161)   #3
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I dragged out some old VHS tapes 18 months ago and watched the 93 and 94 season. By today's standards the EB and VP's were more production car, than race car.

The highlight was watching the 2000 Konica series. That was cool.



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Old 24 Jan 2019, 11:45 (Ref:3878179)   #4
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First thing I had to comment on was just the difference in the cars, still have production dashes and so on, and they were really unruly beasts to drive.
Agreed. The modern versions handle far too well by comparison.

Between Foxtel pay wall and the pathetic grid size (24 cars!), I would not say it is better now.

Having 2 x expert commentators is a definite negative for me. The commentary of Skaife and Crompton can be quite irritating. It would be better to replace Skaife with a "race caller" such as Chad Neylon or Aaron Noonan.

Droning on about adjustable sway bars and "driving as hard as physically possible" for the whole race can be quite annoying. There is no need for two expert commentators IMO.

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So I miss the old days, but we've also never had it so good.
Must disagree. The current series is stale. The lack of commercial interest in sponsorship and lack of ability to attract manufacturers shows this. When Holden quits (which they will, as the series does precisely zero to increase their sales), that will be quite a wakeup call.

Clearly, the running cost (for a sponsor) and cost to develop a car and engine (for a manufacturer) exceeds the commercial return from doing so. If it didn't and there was a strong positive return on investment, they would be lining up to get involved! This is a HUGE problem for the series.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 24 Jan 2019 at 11:51.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 00:12 (Ref:3878413)   #5
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How would it compare to the Mike Raymond era of the late 1970s / 1980s?
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 01:38 (Ref:3878423)   #6
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Good thread. As you've said, it does go both ways and the same can be said for all eras. There will always be strengths and weaknesses.

As for the present day, I feel like there is something lacking in the racing. I think the tyres could be a factor, as well as how "perfect" the cars are, but it seems to me as if actual on track battles are an extreme rarity. Lunges, dives, passing attempts, defensive driving. How often can you recall seeing a battle where drivers of similar pace were able to pass and then repass each other, not just a significantly faster car making the move then driving off into the sunset?

I also think the pitstops play a little too much of a factor in the sprint races. I absolutely detest the concept of the fuel drop as I think it directly hurts the racing.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 02:30 (Ref:3878429)   #7
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How would it compare to the Mike Raymond era of the late 1970s / 1980s?
I love those old witty commentators but the racing back then was barely competitive, the difference between the haves and the have-nots was much wider, and the reliability of the cars was nothing like we have now.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 10:27 (Ref:3878498)   #8
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Just on the commentators, has there ever been a time that people didn't complain about the team offered up? You could pick apart any of the generation of commentators and make a list of complaints. But I think the job Skaife (or Scaife as svg continually refers to him in Instagram) and Crompton do is very good. Yeah, there are in jokes and sometimes over simplified technical explanations, but they are always well received by non-motorsport people when they watch big events like batjurst, Adelaide etc. I think that's a fair measure of their quality.

And geez I miss Canberra as an event. Wrong time of the year, and the track needed to be widened, but I so wish that event was the success it needed to be. Never had a bad time at any of the race meetings there, despite the crazy cold weather.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 12:48 (Ref:3878521)   #9
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Just on the commentators, has there ever been a time that people didn't complain about the team offered up? You could pick apart any of the generation of commentators and make a list of complaints. But I think the job Skaife (or Scaife as svg continually refers to him in Instagram) and Crompton do is very good. Yeah, there are in jokes and sometimes over simplified technical explanations, but they are always well received by non-motorsport people when they watch big events like batjurst, Adelaide etc. I think that's a fair measure of their quality.
Well said, you cant please them all.
Looking back now Mike Raymond was so cringe worthy also but hey that was his era.

What are they going to say about CL this year.

We keyboard warriors are the worst for criticism.
Great in the web forums but never done it Real Time
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 13:05 (Ref:3878532)   #10
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Yeah, there are in jokes
Those are the worst!
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 23:16 (Ref:3878688)   #11
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The main issue with the Skaife and Crompton is that there is no advocate for the casual viewer.

Paul Page and to a lesser degree Mike Joy asked questions of their fellow expert commentators to prompt them to explain what was happening on screen and why drivers and teams are making certain decisions.
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Old 28 Jan 2019, 18:50 (Ref:3880250)   #12
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Crompton, Skaife and all the other commentators are employees of Supercars so of course they are not going to say anything negative
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Old 28 Jan 2019, 20:18 (Ref:3880272)   #13
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You could say the same for Ch7 back in the day, when they had CAMS in their back pocket...
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Old 28 Jan 2019, 22:06 (Ref:3880287)   #14
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You could say the same for Ch7 back in the day, when they had CAMS in their back pocket...
You could, except you'd be wrong.

Mike and others would regularly give CAMs and other organisers an on-air spray spray.

An argument could be made that they were too critical. Moffat's spray against the '92 rules (during the Winton telecast if I remember correctly) was close to libel.
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Old 28 Jan 2019, 22:12 (Ref:3880290)   #15
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CAMS certainly seemed to help #7 in the ‘87 Bathurst broadcast... telling a very young Mr Crompton something along the lines of the Texaco Sierra fuel sample ‘blowing the hygrometer off the clock’

Innocent til proven guilty? Not that day...
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