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Old 8 Feb 2019, 11:31 (Ref:3882614)   #1
andy97
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
BARC

Not strictly historic related but as this is the most popular of the 10/10 forums I frequent I thought I would post it here. The impact of this can't help but be felt throughout club racing, inc the historic sector.

I understand that in 2018 approx. 40% of BARC race meetings lost money with a considerable financial loss being incurred for the club overall over the year.

I think they have lost money in recent previous years, too, partially due to the court battles over Mallory and Croft ISTR.

The impact of this seems to be that the BARC now expect to run fewer meetings, only run series which are deemed viable in the future and a financial commitment from each race series that wants to race with them is now expected to the tune of a £5000 bond to cover potential shortfalls in income. If there is a "surplus" for that series at season end, then any residual funds from that Bond will be refunded. If there is a shortfall, then this would be deducted from the bond, up to a maximum liability of the £5k.

Depending on the circuit hired, the breakeven points for each grid varies between 17 and 21 competitors.

Interesting times.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 11:38 (Ref:3882615)   #2
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Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Not strictly historic related but as this is the most popular of the 10/10 forums I frequent I thought I would post it here. The impact of this can't help but be felt throughout club racing, inc the historic sector.

I understand that in 2018 approx. 40% of BARC race meetings lost money with a considerable financial loss being incurred for the club overall over the year.

I think they have lost money in recent previous years, too, partially due to the court battles over Mallory and Croft ISTR.

The impact of this seems to be that the BARC now expect to run fewer meetings, only run series which are deemed viable in the future and a financial commitment from each race series that wants to race with them is now expected to the tune of a £5000 bond to cover potential shortfalls in income. If there is a "surplus" for that series at season end, then any residual funds from that Bond will be refunded. If there is a shortfall, then this would be deducted from the bond, up to a maximum liability of the £5k.

Depending on the circuit hired, the breakeven points for each grid varies between 17 and 21 competitors.

Interesting times.
Yes a multidute of classes have poor entries and poor spectator numbers aswell.The only championships that I've seen to have good numbers is the CTCRC,Britcar and also the Legends champs.They have struggled with entries but there are other issues aswell
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 11:42 (Ref:3882616)   #3
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The BARC seem to have an awful lot of championships squeezed between ‘Modern’ and ‘Historic’. https://www.barc.net/championships

I’m not surprised they feel the need to do some serious housekeeping....
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 12:30 (Ref:3882625)   #4
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The BARC seem to have an awful lot of championships squeezed between ‘Modern’ and ‘Historic’. https://www.barc.net/championships

I’m not surprised they feel the need to do some serious housekeeping....

You would have thought that with all those events on board that they would be making money hand over fist, something is clearly wrong.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 14:56 (Ref:3882650)   #5
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You would have thought that with all those events on board that they would be making money hand over fist, something is clearly wrong.
3 different champs just for Clios, 4 for Ginettas, sundry ragbag saloons, not hard to see why grids are small; a shrinking number of competitors spread over an ever-increasing number of different champs, series and disciplines, obv really...
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 15:01 (Ref:3882652)   #6
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You would have thought that with all those events on board that they would be making money hand over fist, something is clearly wrong.
Look on TSL at many of their grid sizes. 17-21 cars is break even point, depending on circuit, for every grid at a meeting.
Presumably 17 at Pembrey, Mallory etc. 21 at Donington, Silverstoe, Oulton etc
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 16:33 (Ref:3882664)   #7
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But the really staggering thing is that the BARC officiate at the biggest - as the organisers are so keen to tell everyone - repeated meetings in the UK, the TOCA circus and Goodwood. We were told at one of the drivers meetings we attended that the BARC’s last years losses were around £1.6 Million. That is an enormous amount of money given the club’s profile.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 18:04 (Ref:3882686)   #8
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Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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But the really staggering thing is that the BARC officiate at the biggest - as the organisers are so keen to tell everyone - repeated meetings in the UK, the TOCA circus and Goodwood. We were told at one of the drivers meetings we attended that the BARC’s last years losses were around £1.6 Million. That is an enormous amount of money given the club’s profile.

How much of their losses are due to the fact that the BARC own and, presumably, have to maintain 5 circuits?

It sounds as if they are in the same sort of financial pickle as BRDC are with Silverstone.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 18:56 (Ref:3882696)   #9
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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How much of their losses are due to the fact that the BARC own and, presumably, have to maintain 5 circuits?

It sounds as if they are in the same sort of financial pickle as BRDC are with Silverstone.
5 circuits? I thought it was 3? Thruxton, Pembrey and Croft, what have i missed? And presumably the fees they charge other clubs, and for running Goodwood events and BTCC (with little risk) brings in enough money to cover costs??? If it doesnt then they are seriously doing something wrong.

Last edited by andy97; 8 Feb 2019 at 19:10.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 19:08 (Ref:3882697)   #10
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It would be 5 if you count Gurston Down and Harewood Hill,From the three you mentioned and those two there are no others on the BARC 'Venues'section.
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Old 8 Feb 2019, 20:15 (Ref:3882708)   #11
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5 circuits? I thought it was 3? Thruxton, Pembrey and Croft, what have i missed? And presumably the fees they charge other clubs, and for running Goodwood events and BTCC (with little risk) brings in enough money to cover costs??? If it doesnt then they are seriously doing something wrong.

Sorry, should have been clearer as I included the hill-climb venues. And you would have thought that the BRDC would have at least broken even at Silverstone where they at least have annual lease fees paid to them from the property company they leased out the rest of their site to, plus the gate income from the GP plus all the other fees they rake in.

But they don't; they're losing about £1.5 million a year as well, and that's just one circuit.
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Old 9 Feb 2019, 11:04 (Ref:3882790)   #12
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
That is utterly ridiculous . . .

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3 different champs just for Clios, 4 for Ginettas, sundry ragbag saloons, not hard to see why grids are small; a shrinking number of competitors spread over an ever-increasing number of different champs, series and disciplines, obv really...
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Old 9 Feb 2019, 11:48 (Ref:3882793)   #13
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The new hospitality and conference centre at Thruxton must have made a healthy contribution to the BARC's minus column . Also wasn't Pembrey recently upgraded ?
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Old 9 Feb 2019, 14:30 (Ref:3882809)   #14
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Andy what I see is the breakeven point is almost the same as here. During an official meeting, any grid promoter seems to lose money below the 24 cars mark. And the costs for non registered races are increasing too. Club level racing also suffers. A good reason for some of us to enter "your" one hour race at Spa, 750 € for two runs and a wonderful track looks tempting if not a bargain.
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Old 9 Feb 2019, 15:17 (Ref:3882811)   #15
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All clubs are running championships that should be culled due to low entries.

A few years ago there was a plan for poorly supported championships to be issued with a 'yellow card' and if they failed to improve grids then they were threatened with being shut down.

That plan never seemed to be fully implemented or last for long. It should be reintroduced with a minimum number set at 25. That would force clubs to amalgamate grids and provide full grids with a good mix of cars. There are too many one make championships which provide little overtaking and a poor spectacle for the paying spectator.

I know most championships are run for the benefit of the competitor and not the spectator but organising clubs can only carrying on making 7 figure loses for so long.
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