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6 Sep 2018, 06:35 (Ref:3848442) | #1 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Professional Historic Racers
When the Goodwood Revival started there were a smattering of professional or ex professional racers, in fact very few of the then current BTCC/GT etc. racers attended in any guise other than spectators.
Now, as with the Member's Meeting, it appears that most of the drivers are paid professionals, or they have bought/built the cars and run them, sharing with other professionals. E.g. the Jordan team. Even the Silverstone Classic is becoming more of a professional event rather than the Classic/Historic club racing festival that it was originally. It is perhaps a sign of the times, that with the complexity of modern cars, the freshness of normal power trains and ancient suspension systems is attracting those who can race. Or is it that the value of these cars is consistently increasing and thus good business can be had? All of which, in my opinion, will reduce the input of the amateur racer, such as myself, since; a, it is increasingly difficult to compete; and b, the costs for entry are becoming too excessive. As an example, my Rover, in Tiff Needell's hands was third on the grid at the 73MM. Now we struggle to get 6th! The others have been developed beyond what I can really do. I do know what we need. But, should I have to do that in order to compete? So, what to do? Well for me the Spa Classics and 6hrs meetings don't appear to be suffering from the influx of the professionals, so I can see more folks going back to those events and leaving the bigger festivals. Probably a good thing? By the way I have to say that when racing against the professionals I've been treated with respect and haven't suffered any damage due to their driving standards so I've no complaints in that respect. Thoughts? |
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6 Sep 2018, 07:23 (Ref:3848452) | #2 | ||
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Peter,
You make a very good point. When I started club historic racing mumblety-peg decades ago one accepted that there was the normal spectrum of skill on the grid - some who had raced their cars in the contemporary period when they were new, and some like,say, Martin Stretton, Willie Green and Simon Hadfield who possess a superb sense of balance, control and speed in the wet or dry. I guess the common feature was that no-one was paying them to race. About a decade after I started saw the advent of youngsters racing their father's car - this at a time when a club grid was old cars and old drivers. And the kids were quick. Then in the early 2000s organisers started to invite professionals to share the owner's car ... was it the Revival or Silverstone Classic that started that trend ? At the Revival I was paired up with an ex-BTCC professional and became much more aware of the gulf between the professional and all but a few club historic racers. Now, as the cars are worth more and the owners tend to come from a different shelf in the wealth shop, pay drivers - particularly at prestige meetings - are a standard feature. And even in club racing, owners are turning up with the big-rig and two full-time engineers to support them. Not to even mention the development arms race. Two observations : I could not now afford to buy any of the cars I have raced over the last 30 years; and while change is inevitable, 'club historic racing' as we used to define it (cheapish and cheerful motor sport) is gradually evaporating. I am sorry to see it go as I enjoyed it so much. Nick |
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6 Sep 2018, 13:44 (Ref:3848492) | #3 | ||
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There is a wider issue, too, especially in FJunior, and even more so , in FF1600. Modern single seater racing is rare; we have -
- no F.Renault - a lame F3 - the quick but achingly tedious Formula Ford Ecoboost /F4 /whatever it is called this week It is also stupidly expensive , has poor grids and cars that depreciate. So it is no surprise that there are now plenty of young, fast and not very well off drivers in FF1600 especially. It does mean some of the older stagers are now outpaced , but that is a price worth paying for the sustainability of the series . And it provides for wonderful racing. Goodwood is sui generis really , and such is its profile that it was inevitable that superstar drivers and hot rod cars would become ubiquitous. But take a typical HSCC or CSCC meeting and things are much saner , and people like Needell , Attwood and Watts (et al )seem to rub along fine with 'civilians ' . |
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6 Sep 2018, 14:16 (Ref:3848495) | #4 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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Quote:
In my case my car is built to the exact specification, in which it ran in period. However in period you could run other bits as long as they were homologated under the Blue Book of the period. My car and at least three others of the same model did not run, what every Rover, other than mine, is running now, even though it was homologated. This is not a complaint since I know what to do to make my car a bit more competitive and stay within the rules of "as it was run in period", but because the major teams are getting involved the level of prep has gone up. Even I need a support team for my car. Should have added: Yes Patrick W, Tim H, Tiff and the others are always pleasant and generally polite on track. Last edited by Peter Mallett; 6 Sep 2018 at 14:28. |
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6 Sep 2018, 14:48 (Ref:3848501) | #5 | ||
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I am not disputing anything posted here, but I do feel that the term professional is a little unfair in the cases discussed, while they may be paid, and may even make a living out of it, most are simply very successful versions of yourselves. Most names can be found in old club race programmes, before featuring in international events, just enthusiastic racers initially.
Professional for me means those 'bred from birth' to be racing drivers, Hamilton, Rosberg, Stroll etc. Just a personal opinion not trying to introduce any dis harmony into things. Bauble. |
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6 Sep 2018, 14:56 (Ref:3848504) | #6 | ||
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Ok, paid drivers then. Or drivers who had a career as paid drivers in top championships. In some cases such as Andrew Jordan etc. they are currently racing in the BTCC so yes, professional racing drivers.
No doubt they have upped the spectacle and indeed they are very good. |
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6 Sep 2018, 16:25 (Ref:3848513) | #7 | |||
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Quote:
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Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
6 Sep 2018, 16:38 (Ref:3848519) | #8 | ||
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Yes indeed. My point.kd more that by going all the way it's moved the game into the prefessional rather than amateur realm.
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7 Sep 2018, 08:47 (Ref:3848624) | #9 | ||
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Thoughts Peter?
Both The Revival, and the Classic are now big commercial ventures relying on attracting a big crowd of paying punters, and in order to get the 'casual fan' to buy a ticket there has to be something more than enthusiastic amateurs driving. I doubt if the average BTCC fan would be attracted to a simple historic meeting, but names like Jordan, Neal, et al will probably pull them in, likewise he F1 fans would be attracted by Button, Berger etc. I suspect that only the genuine 'historic fans' would be attracted by the cars themselves. In order to run a historic meeting you need historic cars and that is where people like yourself come in. You have the car, but, and no disrespect intended, you are not a huge attraction, therefore the Pro/Am nature of much of the racing. Anyway in the case of Goodwood it's the 'It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want to' syndrome. I used to enjoy the original Mulberry Historic Meetings, proper job, but that has morphed into todays 'Silverstone Classic Festival'. I think it is called progress. It is a shame that the racing can not be separated from the ballyhoo aspects of these events, so it is the live feed for me. I hope you have a happy and successful meeting, so give us a wave as you pass the cameras. Cheers, Bob. Couch Potato. |
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7 Sep 2018, 09:54 (Ref:3848634) | #10 | ||
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Spot on Bob. Sadly names such as Peter Mallett, Iain Rowley and Mike Bell are hardly attractive to an event PR team. Can’t think why.....
There are an increasing number of wealthy ‘gentlemen drivers’ employing a professional to co-drive their car, which makes it doubly satisfying if you can beat them! The difficult bit is when a company like JDC employ them to solo drive a car, but think that particular scenario is over- maybe..... |
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7 Sep 2018, 10:34 (Ref:3848639) | #11 | ||
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[QUOTE][Iain Rowley and Mike Bell/QUOTE]
Who? |
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7 Sep 2018, 10:44 (Ref:3848642) | #12 | |||
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[QUOTE=bauble;3848639]
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
7 Sep 2018, 11:40 (Ref:3848654) | #13 | ||
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7 Sep 2018, 11:47 (Ref:3848657) | #14 | ||
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Certainly some of your meetings are getting more and more professional. In France, the situation is that we're still waiting for some mechanics becoming pros! How far we stand from you, can't believe it…
I think Peter can turn his car to injection without changing his HTP's first page to stay competitive. He can then re-convert it to what it used to be, a piece of history. |
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7 Sep 2018, 12:24 (Ref:3848666) | #15 | ||
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I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead. |
7 Sep 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3848667) | #16 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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But I guess I'm putting this badly but really it appears that barring the BTCC Historics is becoming the professional discipline for racers.
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7 Sep 2018, 12:49 (Ref:3848673) | #17 | ||
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Hopefully this link works:
https://twitter.com/OfficialBARCHQ/s...43348492279810 It illustrates Peters point very well I think! |
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7 Sep 2018, 14:39 (Ref:3848701) | #18 | |||
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
7 Sep 2018, 14:47 (Ref:3848703) | #19 | |||
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[QUOTE=Mike Bell;3848642]
Quote:
Copies of the photograph are available for purchase at a reasonable cost to all 10/10th members. |
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7 Sep 2018, 16:00 (Ref:3848717) | #20 | ||
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No chance of me being invited back! Sorry to go off topic, but the mag comment did get me counting- if all goes to plan by the end of the season I will have done 12 races around Europe and U.K. in 4 different Morgans, and in between helped support another well known one at 5 European meetings....
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7 Sep 2018, 20:09 (Ref:3848760) | #21 | |||
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Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
7 Sep 2018, 20:47 (Ref:3848770) | #22 | ||
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It's a double edged sword isn't it?
I am a fervent supporter of amateur club racing and I attend an awful lot of wholly amateur(or very nearly) events across all sorts of disciplines but watching some of the pros demonstrate their skills in a myriad of historic legendary touring cars is no less entertaining and for events such as the revival it is an obvious crowd puller. The levels of commitment show in both qualy sessions today for the St Marys trophy was quite incredible. The second session was no less intense than the first with Mike Jordan and Steve Soper absolutely wringing the neck out of their Lotus Cortinas(or at least that's what they were originally) and watching Nick Swift(is he a pro or an am?) throwing that mini into Madgwick at full tilt is just something to behold. Personally I think that the Daily Express Rover is a great car to watch in whoever hands but then again I'm quite unbiased as to whether or not one car or driver is better because I mentally balance the performance according to financial and driver experience input. As I said Peter, and I really understand your sentiment, the problem is quite a conundrum and historically has always been so. |
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8 Sep 2018, 07:43 (Ref:3848818) | #23 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Well thank you. Actually watching Goodwood it really is impressive seeing the likes of Ash Sutton etc. a relatively young BTCC Champion making shapes with his Lotus Cortina. Certainly I'm not complaining about this. Just rueing the fact that slowly us amatuers are being sidelined.
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8 Sep 2018, 07:50 (Ref:3848819) | #24 | |||
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Maybe Goodwood should be re=launched as 'Celebrity Revival' |
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8 Sep 2018, 08:00 (Ref:3848820) | #25 | ||
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Personally I think it proves these guys can drive.
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