Dunlop Sport Maxx championship 09

[deccerz77]

Does anyone know if this championship is also carrying on next year? Last year it looked very competitive with good healthy grids, but this year it is really struggling - just like the hot hatch championship. Is there no lust for production touring car racing any more or do things need to change? If I were to re-invent a saloon car championship I would almost definatly go back to the fia super production rules, yes its a lot more expensive than keeping everything standard but it would mean a more variety of cars could compete equally, and to also compete all over the world in championships like the JTCC, and FIA ETCC cup.

So what are your views?

[gixxer]

The last 2 rounds at combe were rather tiresome to be honest the first race to many of us seemed like a testing session,the 2nd started off really good with some close racing till the pitstops came and killed it.The entry was also rather poor,i did read that the structure for next year is being looked at regarding classes but its in its second year nothing seems to have improved and to be hailed as a feeder for the BTCC falls way short of the mark.I's say lose the pitstops , forget power to weight ratio just have 4 classes similar to the Combe saloons but keep it totally production based mimimal modifications then i can see the champiopnhip going leaps and bounds

[kipper]

Whilst Sport Maxx does need to make a number of changes in the next few years in order to attract additional entrants - which I believe that BARC are addressing, I do think there is a need for a sub BTCC, multi make championship. As such, I'm sure that it will continue into next year.

With regards to interest in saloon car racing falling, I'm not sure that is the case. The reason for this is that whilst the likes of Sport Maxx and Hot Hatch have small grids, the likes of Stock Hatch, DMN Saloons and Castle Combe Saloons have very large entry lists.

[DriversKnow]

There is a lot of interest in the SMC for 2009.

We at Dunlop were disappointed with the early 2008 grids, having expected 24 cars out this year.

All our feedback tells us that there is a real demand for a sub-BTCC multimarque series, and we have already had some very serious players make the jump to SMC. More than half the drivers on our grid are former national champions.

I don't like to speculate on future grid numbers until registrations are in, but I have been told of newcomers expecting to enter in cars as diverse as MG ZR,Punto HGT, Fiesta ST, Mini Cooper and BMW 120d. This, coupled with the return of a couple of regulars from last year could give us 20 car grids in the first championship year. OK, that's not at the level of the Dunlop Motorsport News or Castle Combe Saloons grids,but remember that the SMC rules are far more restricted (and limited to recently produced models) so most of the cars are new builds, not transferred cars from other series.

Future growth will come from engaging dealers to support teams and encouraging privateers who want to do a televised series. The beauty of our class structure is that you can run with a BTCC team in SMC on a large budget, or run a car such as a ZR, Clio or Punto on a true clubbie budget and have a realistic opportunity in the overall points standings.

For more info, or to keep in touch with the Sport Maxx crowd, join our Facebook group

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6264943495

James Bailey, Dunlop

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by kipper

With regards to interest in saloon car racing falling, I'm not sure that is the case.

Quite, I don't see how that can be the case. TTRS has filled every round to capacity plus reserves, and had to buy extra track time for "Last Chance" races to house them on several occasions. Races are full months before the date, and I've seen races fill to capacity 48hrs after being announced on their forum. All in it's first year.

There's clearly significant demand there, but the product needs to be right to enjoy it, including I believe an almost intangible "X" factor.

Hope the grids materialise for a sub-BTCC series, as I've said many times, I looked at it very seriously, but decided the RX8 simply wasn't going to be competitive. Will be keeping a weather eye on regulations and progress..

S.

[R59]

TTRS shows that there is a market for "modified Production" cars out there, but IMO the market for Production Saloons (like Sport Maxx) is very limited, if not shrinking due to the financial slowdown in the economy.

In a similar vein, the Production S1 series run by the EERC is quite well supported, though it caters for people who want to do longer races.

For a "Production Saloons" series to succeeed it needs manufacturer support/recognition, and from what I've seen, it hasn't got it. While Dunlop are championing it, the are singing praises to deaf ears.

Much of it, I feel, is due to the total lack of marketing in motorsport below the levels of the BTCC/MSA sanctioned events. While MSVR sing their own praises, they operate a-la Castle Combe - running their own thing, at their own circuits, so they benefit (as a group) from getting punters through the gate.

Getting punters through the gate is key to getting manufacturers, teams, and TV to sit up and look. Popular meetings generate more interest.

Perhaps Sport Maxx needs a generous prize fund, with finish money for everyone who completes the race, docked if they hit someone! (you get paid if you race clean).

Just some ideas. Many of which I've said many many times before (marketing!)

[COLIN STUBBS]

Ye and I think while BTCC are only getting small grids its hardly likely a "junior" series can ever get serious support. Seems its doomed to be a bit of an allcomers series for the few who want to race modernish cars. I mean is an MG not bending the rules back a bit somehow.
And like the comments already posted in the hothatch thread its just another series within a very over crowded marketplace.

[Dan Friel]

How in the late 1990's did the Production Car championship do so well? I'm i not right in remembering massive grids and fantastic racing - until it was combined with the BTCC and it was killed off.

How can Sport Maxx not emmulate this? Having been established for two years now, there must be specific reasons why the series can only muster a few cars. If the downturn in the economy is to blame, then it isn't going to improve over the next two years.

[Stacy]

Yep, my thoughts exactly..

S.

[kelvin88]

Originally Posted by Dan Friel

How in the late 1990's did the Production Car championship do so well? I'm i not right in remembering massive grids and fantastic racing - until it was combined with the BTCC and it was killed off.

It wasn't quite the simple death you make it out to be, Dan. There was internal politics, the BRSCC, The addition of National saloon and the conversion of BTCC to class 2 touring cars all played a factor. I think the Sport Maxx is a good idea. It just needs some fine tuning.

[Al Weyman]

I think BTCC should go back to the way it was pre 93 as well, its gone steadly downhill since then. Maybe if it was as before and we got a nice variety of truely modified road cars not the stockcar specials we see today then this prod series would shine as feeder championship.

[COLIN STUBBS]

This threads not about BTCC though. In the 80s and early 90s we had a multitude of fantastic cars to race and mostly well within the budget of good privateer teams as well as semi works cars. Production based saloons began to die in the era of Cossys and the expense of running them made it prohibitive to a vast majority of teams. Group N diluted the numbers and the whole lot died a death.
Yes theres room for newer production based racing but only if people actually want to support it.
This dosent seem to be happening.

[Al Weyman]

No its not about BTCC but if it is touted as a BTCC feeder championship then mention of the BTCC and why this is prehaps not happening is surely relevant to the thread. Maybe as has been suggested its not happening is because the 2 litre formula is causing a bit of a road block in the progression path.

PS I would also suggest that as the desire is to be seen as a BTCC feeder championship that is why the classes have been capped at 2 litre where as it would be a far more interesting championship without the cap and having classes, then cars like the RX8 and Vauxhall Monaro's could be included.

[Peter Mallett]

I wasn't going to post in this because I thought the championship was a sort of modified sportscar championship in the mould of hot hatch. I've just realised that the name Sport Maxx is a brand of Dunlop tyre! Could that be part of the reason why it's struggling? I had no idea it was for saloons and GTs.

[DriversKnow]

Just to clarify...whilst we would always like more cars, it isn't 'struggling'!

At Donington this weekend, we have 18 cars entered, despite three regulars (Paul Lund's Alfa, Shawn Taylor's Nissan and the EJM Motorsport Clio) not able to do this round. Whilst 30 cars would be nice, a potential 21 cars isn't a bad place to be for a series in its first championship year.

On top of this, we have received registrations from a 2-car team in Class A that hope to debut this season, and Track and Race Cars are building two Puntos for the baby class.

It isn't easy launching a new series at the moment, but we're getting there!

[Peter Mallett]

I was basing my point on the comments in the thread, which don't necessarily match with a promotor's view.

[Thorney]

Getting back to the original question, what will happen next year I'm hopeful/confident that it will continue to grow. Of course my opinion is biased, we already run 2 cars in the series and are looking for a driver for a third car but overall the series is beginning to show signs of being pretty good. Standard complaints still exisit of course; the tech regs are still full of holes, poorly drafted and completely unable to deal with the variety of cars with any meaningful point but assuming that is fixed (and there is every reason to think it will be) then the series has all the chances to be a real BTCC feeder.

My advice to anyone interested in running a car is to get it in this season for a shake down, the basis of the peroformance will add weight to the cars inclusion and parity for next season. We did this of course with the M3 but with that we had a few issues as to what we were comparing it with so ending up pulling it.

[Stacy]

Hi,

I would expect a good turnout for Donington as it's a circuit in demand, so (and please don't take this the wrong way) one swallow doesn't make a summer!

However, the series is clearly growing and of that I'm pleased, watching intently, and wishing it well.

One thing we won't do though, is invest significant money, and then tug around off the pace for a season or two, while we wait for an organizer to deign to give us a level playing field. Or more likely not, and leave us with a lemon.

As I said, get the regs right and the rest will surely follow. I don't think 30 car grids throughout the year are out of the question at all, it's been proved possible elsewhere and that I'm sure could be repeated here.

S.

[Thorney]

Originally Posted by stacy

One thing we won't do though, is invest significant money, and then tug around off the pace for a season or two, while we wait for an organizer to deign to give us a level playing field. Or more likely not, and leave us with a lemon.


S.

Oh got that t shirt mate, I agree, I still feel bad about what came to pass and how we had to sacrifice a car to make a point, but then I do think long term the series has a future and so sometimes somebody has to make a stand. Fortunately I'm hopefull that good things will come of it.

[EdLeake]

I'd love to join this race series but my Honda Accord which I've spent a small fortune on is just outside of the regs because its 6 years old...

Perhaps extending the res to the '00' years of manufacture would help?

[Al Weyman]

I caught a few laps of it on Saturday/Sunday, some nice looking cars out and a reasonable variety I would say there is a place for it, all looked OK from where I stood head and shoulders above any one make formula (IMHO) thats for sure.

[Thorney]

Al, did you manage to get into your car on Sunday? I sorted someone a coathanger to create a universal key

[EdLeake]

Originally Posted by DriversKnow

Future growth will come from engaging dealers to support teams and encouraging privateers who want to do a televised series. The beauty of our class structure is that you can run with a BTCC team in SMC on a large budget, or run a car such as a ZR, Clio or Punto on a true clubbie budget and have a realistic opportunity in the overall points standings.

Hi James,

Do you believe this will happen, for someone that is competitive of course? Is the Sport Maxx considered a true feeder series for BTCC i.e. do you have interest from 'above'?

My aspirations would be to drive in BTCC but I simply don't have the budget to even consider it right now, it would however be wonderful if Sport Maxx truely offered drivers like myself a chance to cost effectively showcase their skill and then get a backed/sponsored drive as a result!

[Dan Friel]

Originally Posted by EdLeake

Hi James,

Do you believe this will happen, for someone that is competitive of course? Is the Sport Maxx considered a true feeder series for BTCC i.e. do you have interest from 'above'?

My aspirations would be to drive in BTCC but I simply don't have the budget to even consider it right now, it would however be wonderful if Sport Maxx truely offered drivers like myself a chance to cost effectively showcase their skill and then get a backed/sponsored drive as a result!

Well like all forms of motorsport that will depend (in order of importance):

1. How much cash you have

2. How much talent you have

Don't forget that the majority of the BTCC grid PAY much cash for their drives. Sponsorship is only likely to cover a percentage of this cost. Clios and Leons (at the moment) seem to be the BTCC feeder series - but you'll need a plus £50k budget.

[EdLeake]

... and people wonder why motorsport doesn't get the same coverage as other sports.

People can easily afford to go out and play cricket, football, tennis, golf... etc etc. If motorsport was more accessible we'd see a greatly needed influx of spectators at all levels.

Anyway, I digress.