all time greatest

[expert]

who is the greatest racing driver of all times? and why? (it has to be senna, hasn't it?!?)

[strad]

We have hashed this out elsewhere haven't we?
I get confused:confused: I know I have gone over this many times...First off you have to break it down into some kinda of eras or decades..pre-war post-war.
Pre-war
For sheer love of racing and desire to win,,,Nuvolari
For sheer bravery and ubelievable car handling,,,Bernd Rosemeyer
For smooth clean style and tactics Caracciola
That's as close as I can come to picking one, there are so many I admire, from that time.
Post-war you'll have to narrow it down to a time...a decad or some such...
You mention Senna, so one can assume you might be talking of Mid 80s to early 90s.
In that time I would say Senna was the most exciting driver, but not nessasarily allways the best.
To me it will always be a toss up between the anylitacal(sp)
mental, but often unexciting style of the "Professor" and the Gilles Villenuve balls to the wall exciting style of Senna.

[DNQ]

This one pops up all the time, and we never get a decent answer. My vote, though, goes to Jim Clark. The fact that he only finished second ONCE in his F1 career says it all...he was just damn quick, a natural.

[Valve Bounce]

We have been through this a zillion times before, but I am happy to have the opportunity to say again:
Bernd Rosemeyer

[Glen]

This is the thread-type where someone has the good sense to mention that Schumacher should definately be mentioned in the same breath as those other greats, and then a hundred others come up with fanciful reasons not to include him. These discussions are always clouded by rose-tinted "good-old-days" spectacles - no sense will come out of it!

It was a great tragedy for F1 that Senna and Schumacher didn't go head to head for a few years - we will never know the truth.

[laudaman]

It's between Gilles Villeneuve & Senna for me. Both of them gave 100% all the time no matter what car they drove and never gave up in poor circumstances (Zandvooort '79 springs to mind).

Both of them made F1 exciting to watch and if you don't believe me, get your hands on some footage of Dijon '79 and Donnington Park '93 - hair raising performances both.



Also, sorry Glen, but I am beginning to get rose tinted vision. You have to remember that Schumi and the rest of todays drivers have it easy in respect to electronic driver aids, semi automatic gearboxes and clutch handles on the steering wheel. Up until 15 years ago, Monaco was a track that required only one hand of the steering wheel.
Senna had this problem and yet in '88, he was 1.5 seconds quicker than Prost (who obviously was no slouch himself) IN THE SAME CAR!!
That is mighty.

If Senna had survived, he would have given Scumacher the biggest arse-kicking imaginable.

[Replicant]

I think heaven is a really fun place. Imagine Jim Clark, Senna, Gilles, Fangio, Graham Hill, Rosemeyer and the other supremos racing around on little clouds or whatever. Only when we get there will we find out who's the best!
(Does clouds have launchcontrol? I think not!)

[Glen]

Told you. No sense.

With a name like laudaman you should appreciate how hard modern F1 cars are to drive - Lauda couldn't even keep the R2 on the black stuff. If it were true that the new cars are too easy to handle then drivers would be retiring older, not younger.

The very fact that the current field contains only a handful of drivers in the elite class who are able to race wheel to wheel in these cars is further evidence to me that the standard of driving has never been higher. If they were easy to drive we would see far more scrapping and barging - but they aren't, and it's the most any normal GP driver can do to keep the car going for the race distance.

Traction control and other driver aids were part of the Senna era - he must be rubbish too then, according to your logic (sic).

And. I have made no comments whatsoever to run down the talent of Senna - I merely stated that Schumi should be regarded in the same league.

[laudaman]

As I've said many times, I do think that Schumacher should be regarded 'up there' but all I'm saying is that he's not as good as Senna and Gilles + I just don't like Schumi - he's aloof, arrogant and generally a w-nk-r.

Also, traction control didn't come into play until '93, which leaves '84 - '92 unaccounted for.

[Champ69]

I vote for Schumi as I have in the previous 12 threds based on this topic.

He is untouchable.

[Glen]

We're in agreement then, on most of it anyway. The fact that TC is part of the car's make-up doesn't detract from the driver, is what I'm arguing - Senna didn't become a different, lesser, driver in '93 just because the TC was switched on, any more than TC's existence detracts from Schumi's greatness.

As for character - I wouldn't give you much for either of them as nice guys! Also, I think Schumacher is a much more tolerable character in his thirties - especially in 2001 when he frequently raced sensibly rather than recklessly.

Anyway, there's not really an argument here.

[laudaman]

Originally posted by Glen
The fact that TC is part of the car's make-up doesn't detract from the driver...

And it's not as only a select few are using it to gain anadvantage.

[Bononi]

Yes, this one pops up from time to time.

I did it myself, it was my first topic in this forum.

But, anyway. Paulzinho did a great job about this, maybe some of you still can vote :

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...light=revamped

[Glen]

As you say - been done to death. The only interesting thing, to me, is the way in which people think about this question, rather then the actual answer to that question. Most people tend to vote for the driver that they like the most, rather than any other criteria. Senna's renegade appeal and uncanny knack of achieving the seemingly impossible for one lap or one stand-out race obviously has a considerable appeal. Judged by those criteria alone I'd like to remind everyone of Keke Rosberg who was tremendously exciting to watch.

[f1manoz]

Jim Clark.

[mariov]

Very hard question to answer....Senna, Schumacher, Prost , Clark Fangio...We have discussed this topic many times here....And the last time I went on and on with the amazing career of Tazio Nuvolari.

I dont think we will ever be able to select only one......

[paulzinho]

Originally posted by Bononi
Yes, this one pops up from time to time.

I did it myself, it was my first topic in this forum.

But, anyway. Paulzinho did a great job about this, maybe some of you still can vote :

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...light=revamped

Thanks Bon!!!

For those that havent followed the link, my vote goes to Senna he did some amazing things in an F1 car, take Monaco 84 and Donington 93, great performances in greatly inferior cars. That Monaco qualifying lap in 88, those Monaco and Spa wins against oppostion who were widely acclaimed, his battles with Prost, something of which we may never see the like again. 2 greats in the same team, happens but once in a blue moon (Clark and Hill spring to mind).

[senna12]

Most long time racing fans could not possibly give an objective answer, it always comes down to personal favoritism, who affected you the most.

Gilles and Ayrton for me.....

[Inigo Montoya]

Haha, looking at that thread again... Remember economy waffle? And whatever happened to jiggly_puff?

[Damon]

Originally posted by senna12
Most long time racing fans could not possibly give an objective answer, it always comes down to personal favoritism, who affected you the most.

Very well said. And anyone whose only been watching for the last 5 or 6 years will all probably say Schumacher because they never saw Senna/Prost/Piquet/Mansell/Clark etc etc, at their very best.

As I've said before its Senna for me because he triumphed over a generation with some of the most talented drivers F1 has ever seen.

[laudaman]

.

[laudaman]

Originally posted by paulzinho




For those that havent followed the link, my vote goes to Senna he did some amazing things in an F1 car, take Monaco 84 and Donington 93, great performances in greatly inferior cars. That Monaco qualifying lap in 88, those Monaco and Spa wins against oppostion who were widely acclaimed, his battles with Prost, something of which we may never see the like again. 2 greats in the same team, happens but once in a blue moon (Clark and Hill spring to mind).

Exactly! It's the same with Gilles if you think of 1980 as he managed to run in the points with a **** car whilst Scheckter, the previous year's WC, was nowhere. Plus you could consider that whilst he was alive, Alan Jones, Rosberg and Lauda all said he was the best.

[Spaced Invader]

'back in the day' like in the 50's the cars where harder to drive, they had no traction control or any of that stuff and the tracks where so much faster with little or no safty measures. so i would say the greatest driver ever was Fangio because of this. it would be interesting if all the f1 drivers raced in 'old skool' cars for a race.

[Glen]

They also had far less power, much more progressive tyres, much more compliant suspension, radically slower cornering speeds, far fewer options for set-up... hundreds of details that make them totally different. If you think traction control (and auto gears, power steering etc, etc) renders an F1 car a "doddle" to drive, I don't think you know very much about F1.

Added to which there's far more money and opportunity in F1 now - which must motivate an ever higher number of drivers into single seat motorsport. I know I'm in a minority on this point, but I think that logically there must be more difficulty and competition in F1 now than ever before.

[LucaBadoer]

Originally posted by expert
(it has to be senna, hasn't it?!?)

LLLLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!