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Old 5 Jul 2019, 07:26 (Ref:3915982)   #256
Alfisti
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Alfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlfisti should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm sure Mr Gow and his boys will determine a "solution" to take the edge off the BMW. They have to consider appropriate measures, and that isn't going to happen overnight.

We don't need or want a repeat of the BS when the Subaru had significant changes between close of 2016 and 2017.

In 2017 it was the Ash Sutton Touring Car Championship, he was the only Subaru driver who really got anything from the car. Both AJ and latterly Colin are enjoying the best of the BMW with Oli looking better and better each round.
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 07:33 (Ref:3915985)   #257
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S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
It's clear BMW have stolen a march on the others. Let's see the others do their homework over the summer break
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 07:44 (Ref:3915986)   #258
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I think the word missing here is miniscule! (Didn't Tim Harvey say it was something in the realms of 0.05 of a bar which if correct is 7/10th of naff all!)
Gow: 'We have given WSR the lowest possible reduction of 0.02 bar. That equates to about 4bhp.'

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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
another adjustment will be made again after Snetterton, they can only review after every 3 rounds,
Do you have a source confirming that an adjustment will be made after Snetterton?
They can make an adjustment at any time during the season, with a minimum of 24hrs notice from the Championship Administrator.

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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
It's clear BMW have stolen a march on the others. Let's see the others do their homework over the summer break
If your car is already developed to the maximum that can be achieved under the regulations, what homework can a team do?
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 07:50 (Ref:3915987)   #259
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Gow: 'We have given WSR the lowest possible reduction of 0.02 bar. That equates to about 4bhp.'


Do you have a source confirming that an adjustment will be made after Snetterton?
They can make an adjustment at any time during the season, with a minimum of 24hrs notice from the Championship Administrator.


If your car is already developed to the maximum that can be achieved under the regulations, what homework can a team do?
obviously some other cars are still not developed to their full potential. otherwise team dynamics cars would not be beaten by their old cars and their new customer cars for example
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 07:57 (Ref:3915988)   #260
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
It's clear BMW have stolen a march on the others. Let's see the others do their homework over the summer break
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
obviously some other cars are still not developed to their full potential. otherwise team dynamics cars would not be beaten by their old cars and their new customer cars
Agreed - but what about those cars that are?

Perhaps the older Civics are fully developed, and maybe even the FK8, just that Cook has done a better job of driving it than either TD driver?

I'm not saying that all teams should do is wait for the BMWs to be pegged back, or that they should not look to get more out of their car. Just that the Championship will be damaged if teams are never going to be in a position to match the BMWs for pace.
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 08:12 (Ref:3915993)   #261
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Do you have a source confirming that an adjustment will be made after Snetterton?
They can make an adjustment at any time during the season, with a minimum of 24hrs notice from the Championship Administrator.
listen to Matt Neal on Tin Top Tuesday this week, around 2/3 of the way through http://www.btcc.net/live-audio/
confirms that can only do performance balancing on a 3 race basis and cannot do anything until after the next round "TOCA's hands are tied at the moment", quite an interesting interview in respect the BMW debate at least, again he is praising the job WSR have done so no real bitterness or accusations, but I agree with your later point that if we just end up with BMW walking away because nobody can match them, the championship will become damaged as people lose interest

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Old 5 Jul 2019, 09:07 (Ref:3915996)   #262
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There is always a lot more to performance than just the car. Look at the Australian SuperCars for example. More than one team has a Mustang but one team is dominating with them.

In the BTCC there is more than one car out there that has changed teams and fallen right down the order. As far as you can go in one case.

WSR have a million invested in those three cars so I doubt they're holding back anything when it comes to running them.
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 09:12 (Ref:3915998)   #263
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
If you want my opinion, they should lower the rear wing of the RWD boot based spoilers. The BMW isn't a total rocket ship in a straight line, its towards the top of the best speeds list, but its not dominating at all, other cars are faster. I'd say, lower the rear wing by 50mm and lop another 0.05 of boost, thats what I would suggest.
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 09:47 (Ref:3916002)   #264
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
listen to Matt Neal on Tin Top Tuesday this week, around 2/3 of the way through http://www.btcc.net/live-audio/
confirms that can only do performance balancing on a 3 race basis and cannot do anything until after the next round "TOCA's hands are tied at the moment"
Matt Neal's comments in an interview can not be held as a reliable account of what is written in the regulations - and he even contradicts himself in the interview.

Looking at what he actually said:
'Rolling 3-meeting basis [...] can't do anything until the next round [...] TOCA's hands are tied by the rules.'

A rolling 3-meeting basis was in place a few years ago, and would still allow an adjustment at every meeting, but based on the previous 3 meetings results.
Can't do anything until the next round is technically correct, as they could apply an adjustment at the next round.
TOCA's hands are tied by the rules - again technically correct, but the rules allow a change to made at any time if the Administrator feels it is necessary.

Taking a look at the history of the BTCC regulations, then it can be seen how Matt Neal's comments are not entirely accurate.
Prior to 2015, boost adjustments were carried out on a race-by-race basis.
For 2015, this was amended. All engines were evaluated, with a boost level for the season set. The regulation regarding boost level was written for 2015 as:
'turbo boost of individual cars may be subject to review and validation after round 9 of the Championship and/or subsequently at any further time during the Championship by the Administrator,'

For 2016, a further evaluation after round 18 was added:
'maximum permitted turbo boost of individual cars may be subject to review and validation after Rounds 9 and 18 of the Championship and/or subsequently at any further time during the Championship by the Administrator,'

The same situation was in place for 2017. In 2018, the specified evaluations after Rounds 9 and 18 were removed, and the regulation was written as:
'maximum permitted turbo boost of individual cars may be subject to review and validation at any time during the Championship by the Administrator'

This is still in place for 2019. Matt Neal's comments about a 3-meeting rolling average is based on how the regulations were written in 2014:
'Boost adjustment, based on each model's performance across a rolling three-meeting average, is used to help equalise cars.'

Remember, if Matt Neal's comments are being used as the benchmark for BTCC regulations, then he is the driver who said:
'The next Civic is a four-wheel drive car so we can [switch to RWD] we can do what [Subaru have] done and we would just have to go rear-wheel drive with them, thatís what (TOCA) have pushed the formula into'
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Old 5 Jul 2019, 10:28 (Ref:3916007)   #265
btccbloke
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btccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridbtccbloke should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
well if the adjustment was made after Thruxton, and we moved on to 2 tracks which were known to favor the BMW's RWD specification anyway and to be honest I would have expected BMW victories regardless of current performance advantages.
It would become rather silly to adjust them now for being 1-2 at tracks where we would generally expect them to be. Snetterton is much more of a leveler because results between RWD and FWD have generally been mixed over the last 5 or 6 years, that is when the result of any performance adjustments post Thruxton will be exposed properly.
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Old 8 Jul 2019, 17:30 (Ref:3916559)   #266
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GusGasfuss should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I can't say too much about BMW's performance, but in a way it is surprising, that Turkington and Jordan are not more far away with points...


And of course Turkington was also very dominant in first part of his 2009 championship run. And later it was Plato...
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Old 8 Jul 2019, 18:02 (Ref:3916565)   #267
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Turks had a really bad Brands opener and Jordan no points at Donington


championship has a disturbance in the force by the WSR Empire spearheaded by Lord Jordan and Lord Turkington under Emperor Bennets

this should be WSR theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DGeLt6XXqs
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