Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 Jun 2019, 07:11 (Ref:3913839)   #16
Johno.UK
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 252
Johno.UK should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by terence View Post
Track limit=the white line both inside and outside of every track.
Kerbing is on the outside of said track limit lines.

Not in the UK though. The kerbs are part of the track so, even though it doesn't physically, the white line runs around the outside edge of the kerb.
Johno.UK is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 08:45 (Ref:3913857)   #17
Simon Hadfield
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As I have said elsewhere the point should be made that consistency is what is most needed. Why should Lewis, or Jason Plato, or a Ginetta Junior competitor race to different rules to any of us? The FIA rules don’t suggest they do, nor does the Blue tome so why do officials see things so differently?
Simon Hadfield is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 08:49 (Ref:3913858)   #18
ClaireSmith
Subscriber
Veteran
 
ClaireSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
England
Essex
Posts: 2,393
ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johno.UK View Post
Not in the UK though. The kerbs are part of the track so, even though it doesn't physically, the white line runs around the outside edge of the kerb.
Where is that stated?.In the blue book "The white lines defining the track edge are considered to be part of the track"... doesnt say anythhing about the kerbing past those lines
ClaireSmith is offline  
__________________
Claire Smith
Heartbroken.... sad....Motorsport but selfishly I have lost a great light
I am going to miss you soo much xx
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 09:01 (Ref:3913862)   #19
Simon Hadfield
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So why do briefings at MSV events come with photographs showing you can use the kerbs? Very clearly they say (and show) you cannot use the bit after that. As I understood it MSV got MUK to align their regulations with the MSV ones. And should be applauded for having done so.
Simon Hadfield is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 09:21 (Ref:3913863)   #20
ClaireSmith
Subscriber
Veteran
 
ClaireSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
England
Essex
Posts: 2,393
ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Hadfield View Post
So why do briefings at MSV events come with photographs showing you can use the kerbs? Very clearly they say (and show) you cannot use the bit after that. As I understood it MSV got MUK to align their regulations with the MSV ones. And should be applauded for having done so.

Because its a joke... basically, its contradictory of its own self.... rule is as follows

Drivers must use the track at all times and may not leave the track without a justifiable reason. For the avoidance of doubt:
(a) The white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track.
(b) A driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel of the car either goes beyond the outer edge of any kerb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb.


in other words .... "we actually have bowed to preasuure from bad drivers who need to cheat using more track than actually there"


So HOW THE *** can those white lines be called the "track edges" if they are not the track edges!!!!!

What is the purpose of the Kerb Simon? if there was a solid concrete wall going round that track, would you feel the need to cross that line? no, you wouldnt, you would have to lift , you would have to slow down or take a different line, why, because otherwise you will crash. but because there isnt one, we suddenly say you can use the kerb as well....


But here is the point I keep making... when you race, with ANY organiser, you "sign on" with them, and that means you accept THEIR rules, and if they (within the track licence) say that you will be judged to have left the track if you use the kerb in this event"... then that is the rule and so long as its at the briefing... you will have heard it and you will either adhere to it, or face judicial and before people say "you cant do that"" and we should all race with the same rules, we dont, its what I keep saying ... READ THE REGS
ClaireSmith is offline  
__________________
Claire Smith
Heartbroken.... sad....Motorsport but selfishly I have lost a great light
I am going to miss you soo much xx
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 10:56 (Ref:3913890)   #21
one-two
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 224
one-two should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Simon is right. We need one set of rules and consistency in their application. At present we have neither
one-two is online now  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 11:22 (Ref:3913898)   #22
The Fat Clerk
Veteran
 
The Fat Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
England
Mallory Park
Posts: 3,193
The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Couldn't agree more
The Fat Clerk is offline  
__________________
Comments made are personal and dont reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy.
Don't believe all you read on the Internet - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616).
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 12:15 (Ref:3913903)   #23
SWCRacing
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 205
SWCRacing has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
It was not bowing to pressure from "bad drivers" that got the national regulations for track limits changed, it was bowing to pressure from one particular, medically qualified, circuit owner and operator.

I have never seen the limits of the track listed on any National or International Track Licence. Any organiser that changes the Blue Book (for National) or ISC (for International) definition of track limits is making a mistake.

An organiser can decide which particular corners will be monitored by Judges of Fact for track limits infringements, usually the ones where and advantage will be gained. There are simply not enough personnel, or hours in the day to monitor every corner of a circuit

There are one set of regulations for track limits for National competitions run under MUK permits, and they have not changed since 2014

There are one set of regulations for track limits for International competitions run under the ISC. They haven't changed for donkey's years.

The photographs used at MSV briefings are the ones that were issued by the MSA (as then) to give pictorial guidance and explanation to the new regulations when they changed in 2014

It is down to the organising clubs to enforce the correct track limits regulations dependant on what level of event they are running. Having heard first hand certain organisers saying "we don't enforce track limits because they are rubbish", I know where the problem lies. It is also incumbent on the MUK Steward to report back to Colnbrook if the regulations aren't being properly enforced. This is where consistency would come from
SWCRacing is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 12:35 (Ref:3913908)   #24
ClaireSmith
Subscriber
Veteran
 
ClaireSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
England
Essex
Posts: 2,393
ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!ClaireSmith has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWCRacing View Post
It was not bowing to pressure from "bad drivers" that got the national regulations for track limits changed, it was bowing to pressure from one particular, medically qualified, circuit owner and operator.
....
So are you saying it was under medical advise that the regulations were changed?
ClaireSmith is offline  
__________________
Claire Smith
Heartbroken.... sad....Motorsport but selfishly I have lost a great light
I am going to miss you soo much xx
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 13:19 (Ref:3913916)   #25
Simon Hadfield
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 514
Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Clair, with all due respect, the kerbs in the UK are considered part of the track. Therefore they are used. The far side of the kerbs is not part of the track and so should not be used. If any organiser decides differently then they are only helping to confuse the issue.
I have raced at Pau, and Monaco, and various other street circuits and I am acutely aware of where the track limit is on those types of circuit.
Should MUK or any other national body change the standing order then I and everyone else would have have to respect that change. Until then we are racing on circuits where the kerbs are in play. Personally I liked the delineation of chicanes etc by “sausage kerbs” but fully understand why the motorcyclists have a different view. It can only be for the common good that we play nice together, can’t it?
Simon Hadfield is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 14:12 (Ref:3913930)   #26
Rudernst
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Germany
Hamburg
Posts: 579
Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
going back to Marcuses piece in Autosport, I can see his point
as he is right

yellow flags
In Historic Formula Ford, if You so much as lift under yellows in HFF You get passed, at least by some drivers
I have been passed under double waved yellows and SC board out

I have sat in protest proceedings at HSCC meetings where in car footage was examined and the overtake under yellows clearly established
yet with no action taken

Zandvoort Historic GP is different btw, You disregard a yellow, you will hear about it, even if its a friendly tap on your shoulder

what Marcus describes at Cadwell will lead to more safety cars,
because what marshall will venture out on the track if he cant rely on the intelligence of the competitors ?
what CoC will have marshalls near the track with no SC if he does not trust the competitors ?

also, there is not a lot of anticipative thinking among drivers
what I mean:
if there is a big pile up during the start, You can bank on a red flag whithin the next 30 seconds, yet some drivers are completely surprised by it
if there is a stranded car near the circuit, at the very least, there will be yellows next time round, if not not more
yet some manage to overlook the flags that should expext to be there..


as to the "one move" rule
HFF actually tries hard to make that known
some drivers try very hard not to take notice

RuE
Rudernst is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 17:06 (Ref:3913972)   #27
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
England
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 5,095
midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!
For the avoidance of doubt on kerbs, these are the official MSA photos from 2014 that were alluded to earlier. Can't get clearer than that, notice the white line is between the kerb and the track and it is perfectly legal to cross it onto the kerb.


Handy thing social media

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
midgetman is online now  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 19:26 (Ref:3913991)   #28
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,643
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johno.UK View Post
Not in the UK though. The kerbs are part of the track so, even though it doesn't physically, the white line runs around the outside edge of the kerb.
Photo please.
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 22:20 (Ref:3914020)   #29
SamBinfield
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
United Kingdom
Ludwigsburg, DE
Posts: 72
SamBinfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Funny which topics of discussion tend to be the most emotive - clearly the answer is track limits and safety cars. Can I humbly request a return to the familiar and comfortable territory of Spa Six Hour laptimes, oversize MGB engines and Griffith body shapes?

SamBinfield is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Jun 2019, 22:21 (Ref:3914021)   #30
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
England
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 5,095
midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!midgetman is going for a new lap record!
See my pictures above, Terence. They're official MSA pictures and show where the white line is.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
midgetman is online now  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alesi cricital of DTM driving standards SJ Spode WTCC & European Touring Car Series 6 7 May 2002 09:47
F3 driving standards Sid The Manager National & International Single Seaters 81 16 Apr 2002 16:38
Driving Standards? Daz WTCC & European Touring Car Series 6 10 Sep 2001 21:36
On-Track Driving Standards Slowcoach Racers Forum 10 28 Jun 2001 08:27
Driving Standards ? Craig Australasian Touring Cars. 32 6 Jun 2001 09:34


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 19:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.