Force India "faces decision"

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

Is this just because it's about a midfield team?

They do seem to be the ones that complain the most about money problems.

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

If McLaren or Ferrari suddenly found it's major sponsors going bankrupt and had to re-evaluate budgets and were being taken to court for not paying bills, it would generate alot of attention I would imagine.

It's not too difficult to imagine that happening to McLaren, but Ferrari seem to be pretty confident that their 'back door' sponsorship will just keep on coming. It's easy to be outspoken when you can rely on that, hey Luca.

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

I do agree that with your comment though, it is not unexpected but it would be a shame to see a team, that at one stage looked to really be coming on strong, become another has-been.

It is indeed a pity that a team should get so far, only to have the rug pulled from under it. To be honest, I don't know how some of the teams can do it for the money.

[Peter Mallett]

Looking at this threasd is reminiscent of the old hags in Scrooge waiting for him to die so they can sell his stuff. There's almost a guilty pleasure to be found picking over these stories.

The sad thing is that it is mostly a demonstration of the misuse of company funds, that may possibly lead to the loss of some talented people from the championship.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Joe Saward has written an article on this subject that goes into the background of the case with why Mike Gascoyne left FI and how it influenced the case.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

Excellent journalist though he is, remember Joe Saward is a Director of Caterham Group.

As ever with the Internet and blogs, it is up to the reader to research such matters, there is no need or requirement for disclosure by the author.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Excellent journalist though he is, remember Joe Saward is a Director of Caterham Group.

As ever with the Internet and blogs, it is up to the reader to research such matters, there is no need or requirement for disclosure by the author.

I was not aware that Joe Saward was a Director of Caterham but I knew he got on well with Mike Gascoyne.

[Supertec]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Excellent journalist though he is, remember Joe Saward is a Director of Caterham Group.

As ever with the Internet and blogs, it is up to the reader to research such matters, there is no need or requirement for disclosure by the author.

If this is the case Joe Saward's blog is another PR tool for Gascoyne & Fernandes, cleaver.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I was not aware that Joe Saward was a Director of Caterham but I knew he got on well with Mike Gascoyne.

Yes, he and Tremayne have become Directors, although he has kept it rather quiet.

http://skiddmark.com/2012/03/joe-saw...aterham-group/

Personally it doesn't bother me, this is the Internet we're talking about and anything you read on a blog or forum should be taken with a hefty does of salt unless you know otherwise.

If it were Jeremy Paxman on BBC2 becoming a Director of Barclays and then interviewing Bob Diamond, the Barclays CEO, I would be concerned. But of course that wouldn't happen.

[Zen]

Originally Posted by Supertec

If this is the case Joe Saward's blog is another PR tool for Gascoyne & Fernandes, cleaver.

I always thought Joe Saward was biased towards Catherham/Team Lotus but this is a bit much when he spreads propaganda for one team (that he is a director of) against another team. This is just another PR channel for Catherham, how can he be believed in the future. I feel foolish for even reading his blog now.
Its about time Caterham used their on track results to generate PR not underhanded use of 'independent journalists' if they can ever get any results that is.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Zen

I always thought Joe Saward was biased towards Catherham/Team Lotus but this is a bit much when he spreads propaganda for one team (that he is a director of) against another team. This is just another PR channel for Catherham, how can he be believed in the future. I feel foolish for even reading his blog now.
Its about time Caterham used their on track results to generate PR not underhanded use of 'independent journalists' if they can ever get any results that is.

that's all a bit harsh, and somewhat jumping to conclusions. it's just a matter of taking it with an even bigger pinch of salt than you would have done otherwise. all journalism is coloured by opinion and experience. it's a fact and if people aren't taking that into account in any area of life then they're a little deluded. you have to judge for yourself where it fits into the great big puzzle of opinions and "fact".

force india aren't helping themselves by denying any of the side of this that team lotus/caterham won actually exists. the problem is that since we're only seeing caterham's side of the story we can only assume it's correct. force india would do well to buy a well-placed journalist dinner and get their side of things out.

if of course, there is a side of this that doesn't make them look like muppets.

[Zen]

'force india would do well to buy a well-placed journalist dinner and get their side of things out.'

I think there is a difference in buying a journalist dinner and making one a director of the team. Caterham need to concentrate on the track performance because up til now their performance is dismal while on the other hand FI have made good steady progress every season.

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Zen

'force india would do well to buy a well-placed journalist dinner and get their side of things out.'

I think there is a difference in buying a journalist dinner and making one a director of the team. Caterham need to concentrate on the track performance because up til now their performance is dismal while on the other hand FI have made good steady progress every season.

you do know it is the Caterham car company his is on the board of, and has nothing to do with the f1 team which is a separate company

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by St00ge

you do know it is the Caterham car company his is on the board of, and has nothing to do with the f1 team which is a separate company

Oh come on!!

I said I didn't mind personally, but to suggest that a specialist Formula One journalist renowned for his insight into the business of motor sport has been employed to purely advise Mr. Fernandes on road cars is a little disingenuous wouldn't you say?

[Zen]

Originally Posted by St00ge

you do know it is the Caterham car company his is on the board of, and has nothing to do with the f1 team which is a separate company

'and has nothing to do with the f1 team' .............Thanks for setting me right on that one..........I will now believe everything he writes...

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Zen

'and has nothing to do with the f1 team' .............Thanks for setting me right on that one..........I will now believe everything he writes...

I think you are still jumping to conclusions, with very little fact to base your opinion on...

[St00ge]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

Oh come on!!

I said I didn't mind personally, but to suggest that a specialist Formula One journalist renowned for his insight into the business of motor sport has been employed to purely advise Mr. Fernandes on road cars is a little disingenuous wouldn't you say?

and what the **** is he going to do for the F1 team?? tell them how to build a f1 car haah


Come on there are a lot of people on various forums who always love to attack ole Joe over anything and everything he says so this is nothing different. Personally I enjoy his Blog and GP+ magazine and don't see any major bias in he pieces (he has been on the board for quiet a few months now) and if you think he is bias, well now you know and can take that into consideration when you read his articles. Time to build a bridge boys and get the **** over it...

[Zen]

Originally Posted by St00ge

and what the **** is he going to do for the F1 team?? tell them how to build a f1 car haah

and what the **** is he going to do for the F1 team?? You ask..

What he is doing now,
being used as Gascoyne’s- Fernandes mouthpiece . I don’t have a problem with the two putting their side of the story but when they use an ‘independent’ journalist/blogger to put their argument with another team I find that erroneous. I always believed Joe Saward to be independent although bias to Lotus/Caterham through the whole Team Lotus –Lotus Renault affair now I would not believe a word he says. And what does this say about Gascoyne/Fernandes ….


Smoke & Fire… ‘Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty; inaccuracy, of dishonesty.’

[St00ge]

yeah ok that's your opinion, you're free to have it.

[bella]

mmm, i think someone's got their tinfoil hat on

if you're going to look at a single journalists comments in that much depth then you might want to reconsider every single news or editorial comment you've ever read.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by bella

mmm, i think someone's got their tinfoil hat on

if you're going to look at a single journalists comments in that much depth then you might want to reconsider every single news or editorial comment you've ever read.

What matters is not that journalists have personal baggage and biases, in any specialist area it's inevitable that they do, the important thing is that they are open about their interests in the field and therefore not trying to promote an agenda while claiming to be neutral observers.

[Peter Mallett]

Soooo anyway, what about this decision Force India has to make?

[Zen]

Originally Posted by bella

mmm, i think someone's got their tinfoil hat on

if you're going to look at a single journalists comments in that much depth then you might want to reconsider every single news or editorial comment you've ever read.

Do you not read journalists comments in depth? I likened reading Joe Saward as reading the Observer against the News of the World or the Sun, I thought Joe Saward was more of an Observer type journalist sadly now I have reclassified him to the later.

As to Force India I hope they get over the reported problems (if there are in fact any ref to Joe Saward) and carry on moving up the grid something Joe Saward's team Caterham presently are finding difficult.

[St00ge]

Well if you think he writes with such bias, how bout you show me something that you find so offensive??

[bella]

Originally Posted by Zen

Do you not read journalists comments in depth?

thoroughly so. i find joe saward to be very obvious with his bias (much like will buxton) so it's not as if it's hard work. picking out facts eg results from opinions is very simple. his own written work is very clearly different from press released based posts. i'm not sure why people should declare their own interests when it's usually very clear where their preferences lie from their written work.

personally i always read quotes first. this tells you what has actually been said. the rest is the journalists opinion on what they meant by what they said. if you're reading a blog, it's all opinion. and opinions are biased by nature.

back to force india, and i think we'll see mallya disappear from the team quietly over the course of the year. i think it will change hands at the end of the season for a relatively small amount of money in exchange for taking on the debt directly related to running the f1 team.

[Bononi]

Ridiculous performance by the way today...

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Ridiculous performance by the way today...

Who by, FI or Joe?

[bella]

going back to the force india/lotus or caterham or whatever shenanigans, another piece in the jigsaw has been provided in gpweek. this time it's addressing the concorde agreement issue that marussia have asked to be investigated. it's worth a read in the context of joe saward's side of things:

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=33

(hope that link works till the next issue)