Austin 1800 (Landcrabs) in rallying

[Les Dalton]

Bon jour Everyone,
Les Dalton here in sunny France.
I am brand new to this site, so please forgive me if I have missed it, but I have not seen any mention of the Austin 1800 in any of the threads.
During my ten years representing the British Army international rally team, I competed in loads of rallies, both at National and International level with the 1800.
In the 1971 RAC rally I finished 34th overall from 250 starters in a completely bog standard 1800 staff car, and on the same same set of Onduro rubber remould tryes throughout the entire rally.
I drove the last 1800 to finish an international before the homologation expired to 32 overall on the 1978 Scottish international rally.
I found the 1800 was pretty bullet proof and probably the best car that the Army had to offer in the seventees.
I shall try to attach some pics of my cars.
Kind regards,
Les Dalton.

[Lloyd.L]

An interesting career Les. Did you ever do the Monte and if so, do you have any photos.

Regards, Lloyd

[GORDON STREETER]

Hi Les welcome to 10/10ths. I did do a quick search on here for anything dedicated to the old Landcrab but drew a blank.
I know we have 'waffled' away on the 1800 before but it was probably just reminiscing on Mowog stuff.

I used to work on them when they were new and they were the only car that could put up with abuse on our test route filled with pot holes, mind you as most other cars of the day were Moggie 1000s or A40s I suppose it would.
It was an 'underrated' car in it's day and I remember we had a couple of vets that had them and they were always singing their praises for off road use.
The Maxi that sort of replaced it wasn't a patch on it

[GORDON STREETER]

You've probably seen this. http://www.landcrab.net/mainframes/main_rally.htm

[terence]

Les,I imagine you have spoken to Philip about his rallying using one? he sold it to my Ex Boss Arthur Carter. I then had the pleasure of restoring it.

[Les Dalton]

Hi Lloyd, Gordon and Terence,
Thank you for your replies to my post.
Lloyd, no unfortunately the Monte had been dropped from the Army rally calender before I started International rallying in 1971, therefore, all my rallying was UK and BAOR.
I indeed did have a very exciting military career, representing the Army in circa 30-40 International rallies.
I shall attach a few photographs of some of my rally vehicles throughout the years, including the awsomely fast Turbocharged Land Rover that was prepared for me by the great Alan Allard, and also some of the Cooper spec Mini that I used as well.
These are some of the photographs used in the book that I have just had published called Fly Army.
Here is the cover;






























Gordon, yes, I have seen the Landcrab site, actually Ken Green,who runs the rally register is a chum of mine, here is ONE of his ex marathon Landcrabs.







Terence,
Yes he has mentioned rallying in the 1800, however, i think he has used most of the BMC/BL products at one time or another.
Kind regards,
Les Dalton.

[Les Dalton]

OOPS, sorry everyone, I am not sure why that came on twice!!!
Regards and apologies,
Les Dalton.

No problem; now sorted - JT

[Al Weyman]

Can a mod modify the title as I dunno what an Autin is Maybe easier for the search engines to find as well.

[Gerry Taylor]

I know I mentioned this many years ago, but since this is a new thread, thought it might be of interest?
Liz Crellin was a neighbour of mine when I lived in the village of Alrewas way back in the seventies. The LandCrab was often parked on the driveway, and her co-driver JEAN DENTON would often be at Liz's. Paddy Hopkirk was a dear friend of Liz and Ron and spent a lot of time there.

[Les Dalton]

Bon Jour Al,
Sorry about that spelling mistake, I am unable to edit the page, perhaps one of the Moderators would be kind enough to insert the missing S for me!!
kind regards,
Les Dalton.

[John Turner]

Corrected as requested, Les.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Gerry Taylor

I know I mentioned this many years ago, but since this is a new thread, thought it might be of interest?
Liz Crellin was a neighbour of mine when I lived in the village of Alrewas way back in the seventies. The LandCrab was often parked on the driveway, and her co-driver JEAN DENTON would often be at Liz's. Paddy Hopkirk was a dear friend of Liz and Ron and spent a lot of time there.

Hi Gerry- Yes, I remember you posting pics of Jean Denton's LandCrab-
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114865
It was the car she used on the 1970 London-Mexico World Cup Rally, sponsored by Woman Magazine and nicknamed 'The Beauty Box'.

I've seen pics of it on another forum showing it on an early 70's club rally in Kent, though I don't know if it was still owned by Jean Denton at that time- the original poster of the pics thought they were taken between 1972/73. It's still in the blue 'Woman' magazine colours from the World Cup marathon, which it seems to have kept throughout it's career
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/d...5-2010_040.jpg

I've got a vague memory it's still around- I'm sure I've seen a photo of it as found, unrestored and in a pretty sorry state. Anyone able to confirm that?

The two Marathon events in 1968 and 70 are probably the LandCrab's greatest claim to rally fame in terms of works or works-supported entries, though there was at least one international rally win in the mid-60's- Tony Fall, I think on an event in Czechoslovakia or somewhere in that neck of the woods around 1967.

Apart from Ken Green's car in the pics Les posted earlier in the thread (a veteran of both marathons- funnily enough, there's a model of it sitting on the shelf above my PC as I type this!), I think quite a few of the marathon cars survive.

I remember either Fall or Paddy Hopkirk talking about them in an article in one of the classic car mags a few years back, and saying they were a surprisingly decent rallycar for what they were, as they handled a bit like a big Mini

[Graham Clayton]

Originally Posted by KA

The two Marathon events in 1968 and 70 are probably the LandCrab's greatest claim to rally fame in terms of works or works-supported entries, though there was at least one international rally win in the mid-60's- Tony Fall, I think on an event in Czechoslovakia or somewhere in that neck of the woods around 1967.

KA,

According the ad at the bottom of this page, the 1967 rally was the 4th International Danube Rally:

http://www.bluestreaksix.com/Austin1800/Page14.html

Landcrabs were seen in Australian events, with Andrew Cowan winning the 1969 Southern Cross Rally.

[KA]

Originally Posted by Graham Clayton

KA,

According the ad at the bottom of this page, the 1967 rally was the 4th International Danube Rally:

http://www.bluestreaksix.com/Austin1800/Page14.html

Landcrabs were seen in Australian events, with Andrew Cowan winning the 1969 Southern Cross Rally.

Thanks Graham, that's the one- LRX824E- unusual amongst BMC works cars of the period as it wasn't painted in the usual red body/white roof colourscheme used on most works entries- IIRC 'LRX' was black with a white roof. Brian Culcheth later drove it on the Alpine Rally, then I think it was loaned to longtime Mini privateer Bob Freeborough who used it on some UK events

[dikko]

An 1800 all dressed in Rally gear was parked and forgotten and went very green and rotten where I live in Stanstead Abbotts, Herts, a number of years ago (25?). Presumed gone to the breakers...nostalgia's not what it used to be.

[KA]

Originally Posted by dikko

An 1800 all dressed in Rally gear was parked and forgotten and went very green and rotten where I live in Stanstead Abbotts, Herts, a number of years ago (25?). Presumed gone to the breakers...nostalgia's not what it used to be.

I think one or two of the various 'Marathon' cars sat around for years after the end of their rally careers- I can't find any of them online now, but I've seen pics of a couple as they were found, in pretty sorry states.
There's one some way down the page on this link, as found in the 80's(?), pretty much untouched since the 1970 Marathon
http://www.bluestreaksix.com/Austin1800/Page21.html

[KA]

A few Marathon Landcrab pics found on Flickr

NAM616G, one of the private entries on the 1968 rally.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...dcrab-and-maxi
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...crab-and-maxi/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...57621134496941

VLM128G, the 'Royal Navy' car on the 1968 event
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...7621134496941/

SMO226G- the 2nd placed works car of Paddy Hopkirk, now in the museum collection at Gaydon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/5108120708/

Any idea how many more of these survive- I think there may be quite a few still around? Think I've read somewhere that 'NAM616G', the car in the first pics still exists and is under restoration

[Paulaweybridge]

Oh wow !!!

I had a dark green one that I ran on my company back in 1970/1.

Reg no: CAN 964H.

It was a wonderful car and it's body (at the time) was reputed to have the greatest torsional stiffness ever made.

PS. These are the numbers still about according to howmanyleft.co.uk !!

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=Austin+1800

and all versions combined: http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/combined/austin_1800

[KA]

Originally Posted by Paulaweybridge

It was a wonderful car and it's body (at the time) was reputed to have the greatest torsional stiffness ever made.

I guess that's something that must have added to their suitability for the kind of rough, long-distance rallies they did well on.
As well as the number of road cars surviving, I think there are a surprising number of the original marathon rallycars still around, bearing in mind the hammering they must have had

[Les Dalton]

Hi Paulaweybridge,
I can certainly endorse your comments about the inherent body strength of the Landcrab.
Attached is a picture of my Army rally 1800 a few seconds after touch down.
I had been contiuously lapping a short and rather boring special stage for the Army PR people, and several of our sponsors, and came into a 90 left a tad to quick.
What apparently happened was that I came into the corner sideways with the left hand wheels in the air, touched a low curb with the right hand wheels and did a lovely double roll to land on my door.
Such was the body strength, that inner left hand front wing was not even marked and we drove the car back to camp some 30 miles away.
I will also attach a picture of a quite famous 1800 owned by a chum of mine that was used on several marathon rallies.
Regards,
Les Dalton.

[TedTaylor]

Originally Posted by KA

A few Marathon Landcrab pics found on Flickr

NAM616G, one of the private entries on the 1968 rally.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...dcrab-and-maxi
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...crab-and-maxi/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...57621134496941

VLM128G, the 'Royal Navy' car on the 1968 event
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...7621134496941/

SMO226G- the 2nd placed works car of Paddy Hopkirk, now in the museum collection at Gaydon
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45676495@N05/5108120708/

Any idea how many more of these survive- I think there may be quite a few still around? Think I've read somewhere that 'NAM616G', the car in the first pics still exists and is under restoration

Just picked up on this Forum.

Yes NAM still exists - I own it and trying to get the workshop finished so that I can restart the restoration. I had hope to get it to WCR40 in April 2010 which I dreamed up and Chaired the organising committee but pressure of the work in organising the thing meant I could not get it there - just my Team Thailand world cup Landcrab.
I am always looking for pics of my car (it also competed in the 1969 Monte, 1969 Rally du Maroque, 1970 World Cup and the 1971 British Rally Championship). Have had a look at these pics but how can I get good copies please?

The other two cars still exist and are in the informal period historic marathon e-mail group that I 'run'.

Ted

[Les Dalton]

Bon jour Ted,
I dont know if you have spoken to Ken Green who is the competition secretary for the Landcrab Owners Club Worldwide, he probably knows more about the history, and the whereabouts, of most of the 1800 rally cars that were used in the various marathon rallies, than anyone else alive today.
I shall try to attach a couple of pics for your perusal which I have taken from the BAMA (British Army Motorsport Association) site that I run, one is of the Team Thailand 1800, and the other shows one of Ken's 1800, No 32 which was driven by Ken Trubman in the 1970 Marathon.
Kind Regards,
Les Dalton.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by TedTaylor

Have had a look at these pics but how can I get good copies please?

Ted

Normally if you get the picture on the screen and right click it then select large size or original you can download it

[KA]

Originally Posted by TedTaylor

.

Have had a look at these pics but how can I get good copies please?

The other two cars still exist and are in the informal period historic marathon e-mail group that I 'run'.

Ted

With the pics of Flickr, if you click on the 'view in light box' symbol (looks like a magnifying glass with a + in the middle) at top right of pic, it takes you to a black-framed version of the pic.

Once in the 'lightbox', if you click on 'View all sizes' at the top right, you'll get a variety of size options to download.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3894937...7621134496941/

If these don't come up, then the owner of the pics has probably disabled downloading, and you might need to sign up to Flickr and contact them through the site to request copies.

[Paulaweybridge]

Good Morning Les,

Happy New Year.

My deepest apologies for not seeing and replying to your post.

Wowsers - Great fotos and story, thank you so much ...

I was driving my 1800 up the one-way section of Piccadilly in London one day and a taxi driver opened his driver's door right in front of me and I could not stop in time. Silly man ....

I was only doing a few mph and because there were cars to my right, I had nowhere to swerve to either !!! Lucky that I did not trap and injure him ..

It left a small vertical crease on the front of my nearside front wing and did not even crack the headlamp glass.

His door and door jam were in a mess though and must have been very expensive to put right ....

Take care

Paula

Originally Posted by Les Dalton

Hi Paulaweybridge,
I can certainly endorse your comments about the inherent body strength of the Landcrab.
Attached is a picture of my Army rally 1800 a few seconds after touch down.
I had been contiuously lapping a short and rather boring special stage for the Army PR people, and several of our sponsors, and came into a 90 left a tad to quick.
What apparently happened was that I came into the corner sideways with the left hand wheels in the air, touched a low curb with the right hand wheels and did a lovely double roll to land on my door.
Such was the body strength, that inner left hand front wing was not even marked and we drove the car back to camp some 30 miles away.
I will also attach a picture of a quite famous 1800 owned by a chum of mine that was used on several marathon rallies.
Regards,
Les Dalton.