750MC Mk II Golf Series 2007

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andy97

MX5, MR2, Porsche 924, Minis, MGs, Ford XR Saloons, SELOC BMW's, Classic Sports Car Club "Tin Tops" and I'm sure that there are plenty more.

That's the point. There are plenty of places for track day regulars to go & race already without inventing a new format. I suppose the real question to ask is why these existing series have not attracted new entrants?

Could it be that those championships aren't attractive to those who like the idea of the Golf Championship??

Lets look at single seaters. Ask any spectator. They'll tell you that there are too many championships. Occasionally some of the racing is exciting. Usually they're a bore and the drone of the engines excruciating. Why isn't anyone moaning about them??

Or historic saloons. Why not single them out and reduce the number of championships - I mean, they're all doing more or less the sme thing aren't they?

There are some very fixed ideas out there. My view (I'll shut up after this) is that this championship might get the formula right and if it does - hooray. Amateur racing is on the decline and racing is very very processional 90% of the time. The other championship that everybody moans about is the saloons at Castle Combe. Ask the spectators about that one.

[Biff]

Better than watching half a dozen massively fast Formula Saloons taking it in turns to break down. Take it from me spectators prefer racing rather than expensive racers that break down[quote from Jonners]

I think spectators would probably prefer a grid full of massively fast formula saloons racing close. But the cost and attitude required to enter that arena is prohibilive in itself.

If the Golf championship can retain full grids and bring new competitors into the sport then it has to be good. The sport needs a constant influx of new blood to replace us old blokes when we croak it. The trend at present is for 1990's medium priced road saloon/sportscars to be the way to bring them in and allow them to learn. You can not learn to race in a massively fast special. In fact many of us never attain the level of skill required for that.

Its a good starter formula for some people who may move on, but it may also be a ceiling for another competitor who may remain there for many years.

As long as both of them are contributing to our sport I'm behind them.

[Al Weyman]

I have 4 Camaros, can we start a Camaro only series as well? :-)

[tim dodwell]

The main problem with having loads of new series, is that they tend to take competitors from existing ones - not a good thing, and we also end up with too many (series). Personally, I believe that in general spectators like variety, and those cars dicing all over the track with different speeds on the straights or corners. Hence the success of the DTRC, and the Road Saloons and Production Saloons in their days.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by jonners

Eh??

What would that prove?

If the aim was to start the fastest ever one make championship they wouldn't be using the Golf.

There are millions of humble cars in standard trim that would beat the Corrado. So are we saying that anything less than a one make championship for 911 GT3's is unsatisfactory??

If you're in a championship where the racing is close and exciting the driving won't be boring.

Unless what you drive matters more than the racing.

If what i drive mattered, i wouldn't have been racing a Polo G40!!!

Also i am using the Corrado in relation to the Golf, who mentioned Porsche's? So the millions of other cars that may beat the Corrado are also insignificant, i was stating that a stock car from the same era and marque would be faster than these 'race cars'.

All i am trying to say is that the cars are being left too standard. There are lots of things that can be improved on them that would still keep it a budget series. There are people picking many holes in the regs on the UK's biggest VW forum. They, the would be spectators, seem more interested in the value of their cars going up as i mentioned before.

Stock hatch is a fantastic MULTI marque series which attracts fantastic grids and is a joy to watch and is also available to the Golf. But even the stock hatch regs allow more adjustment and engineering to go into the cars.

As i mentioned before, i love VW's so my gripe is not with the car being on track and racing. I just think with all these fabulous 'budget starter series' something has to give. I know we all start somewhere and cheap racing is attractive for those with less of a budget LIKE ME! However, i would rather spend time building a proper race car and compete in a series with other proper race cars and have close entertaining racing a la DTRC. Could there be anything more successful in the UK at the moment?

Al, four should be enough for your own series , just pay three other guys to jump in the others and we are off!!! Oh, and keep them bog standard too, thats what people want to see!!

[jaysalv]

i am currently building a mk2 golf up to be raced next year and am split between this series and the dtrc somehow the negative feedback im reading in this thread is pushing me towards the dtrc series or the tin tops . may have to rethink the plans i have for the golf

[splash lazenby]

to be fair the negative comments are from people who are not even thinking about racing in the series. i doubt that that any other club gives the same value per entry fee as 750mc, it all depends what you want from a championship, we have a golf that is 'slick 50' spec and is currently being changed to suit the regs for the new series. if the grids are full, which is how it would seem, it should be all good.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andybg40

who mentioned Porsche's?

Hey! You started it by mentioning Corrados which, when it comes to a Golf only championship, have precisely nothing to do with the price of fish!

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andybg40

Stock hatch is a fantastic MULTI marque series which attracts fantastic grids and is a joy to watch and is also available to the Golf.

Mk 2 Golf Gti's are not eligible for stock hatch!

[jonners]

Originally Posted by tim dodwell

The main problem with having loads of new series, is that they tend to take competitors from existing ones - not a good thing

A fair point but if people decide to play elsewhere that's one of those things. That's not meant to be as flippant as it sounds. The point is that if existing championships are good this shouldn't be a problem.

If you guys were starting from scratch would you chose DTRC or something like the Golf championship?

[andypipe]

Originally Posted by jonners

Mk 2 Golf Gti's are not eligible for stock hatch!

Why is that?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Engines are too big, Andy. Stock Hatch is 1.4 16v or 1.6 8v max.

I am starting from scratch, and I've picked DTRC.

As I said before, if existing championships aren't pulling in new competitors, then that needs to be looked at and seen if anything can be done to encourage them, before taking the easy route of creating a new series every year.

Has anyone asked those intending to race in the Golf series why they are doing that and not another (existing) championship?

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Engines are too big, Andy. Stock Hatch is 1.4 16v or 1.6 8v max.

Ah yes i remember! So MK1 can do it but not the MK2 then, thanks for pointing that out, my error.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by jonners

Hey! You started it by mentioning Corrados which, when it comes to a Golf only championship, have precisely nothing to do with the price of fish!

I used corrado's as a marker point as they are part of the same era and manufacturer. If i wanted to start comparing other marques it would have been pointless.

All i was pointing out is why spend thousands, despite what people say it will cost thousands, building one of these cars when chances are a stock road car will be faster. Me personally, i just cant see the point.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andybg40

I used corrado's as a marker point as they are part of the same era and manufacturer. If i wanted to start comparing other marques it would have been pointless.

All i was pointing out is why spend thousands, despite what people say it will cost thousands, building one of these cars when chances are a stock road car will be faster. Me personally, i just cant see the point.

I know what you mean but if the regs allowed lots and lots of modifcations there are still plenty of stock road cars that are faster. Lots of racing cars - even some single seaters - are slower than some stock road cars. I know that means comparing the slowest single seaters with the fastest road cars but the point is the same - in other words, so what?

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by jonners

I know what you mean but if the regs allowed lots and lots of modifcations there are still plenty of stock road cars that are faster. Lots of racing cars - even some single seaters - are slower than some stock road cars. I know that means comparing the slowest single seaters with the fastest road cars but the point is the same - in other words, so what?

You really dont get this. I am not comparing all road cars, just the Golf and a Corrado as they share many similarities. I have not even mentioned single seater's once. You really seem to be going off on a tangient.

I have made a statement that i, as in me personally, would not want to race a car that can only be built to the regs they list. It's a statement, not a means to waste hours of my life justifying what i think, it's how i feel.

I would also like to add that I have had dealings with the people that are organising the series, and when i first heard about it i even thought that it would be a series for me. Now i dont for the reasons mentioned. Obviously not everyone will think the same as me, thats why they have 20 registered drivers. Different series are for different people, thats how it is. But i still think these drivers could have bought or built cars for the same cost as for this series and and raced in existing formats.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andybg40

You really dont get this. I am not comparing all road cars, just the Golf and a Corrado as they share many similarities. I have not even mentioned single seater's once. You really seem to be going off on a tangient.

You made a comparison. I did the same to show that it's pointless. Whether or not you had already mentioned single seaters is irrelevant.

With respect, you (not me ) went off at a tangent by talking about the Corrado.

Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by jonners

You made a comparison. I did the same to show that it's pointless. Whether or not you had already mentioned single seaters is irrelevant.

With respect, you (not me ) went off at a tangent by talking about the Corrado.

Subject closed as far as I'm concerned.

This has turned into a classic example of why i normally i just read and laugh and do not bother posting on forums. I cant get back the minutes of my life that i have wasted with this which annoys me. Feel free to waste yours if you wish.

Quite simply I made a comparison as a means to show why i the Golfs are too limited in their modification. It did not require you to even make comment on it. It's called a statement not a question.

Anyway, back on topic. How many people on here are entering?

[jonners]

!

[jonners]

Originally Posted by andybg40

It did not require you to even make comment on it.

You've got a strange attitude matey. This is a discussion forum.

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by andybg40

Anyway, back on topic. How many people on here are entering?

Topic for discussion!!!

[Al Weyman]

none by the sound of it!

[andybg40]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

none by the sound of it!

Thats because they are all going to be new drivers!!

Thats the beauty of starting this series!!

Just one more thing before i sit back and just read again. I raced in the VW Cup a few years back. The cars and the series can be seen as very expensive i know, which is what apparently makes it the pinnacle of VW racing in this country. However, the traffic on the UK's biggest VW forum was non existent and bugger all people from the VW scene came to watch. I don't understand where the drive has come from to create this series. Clearly the VW fraternity are not really that interested in what goes on in our little world.

[Tim Wilkinson]

It's possibly an issue of security. People want to get into racing, but don't know where to start and don't fancy wading into a championship when both the racing way of doing things and the people they are surrounded by are new to them.

A new series with a load of guys in a similar situation makes it much easier to get into racing - pretty much everyone is new to it, so no-one stands out like a sore thumb for being new. Also, with something coming out of an existing motorsport club, the camaraderie is already there, it's basically racing with your mates!

The race scene is a pretty scary place for a new boy, but there has to be a way of getting people past that and making it more accessible to new entrants; As a new driver myself this year I'd feel pretty comfortable starting in most championships, but only because I've had a couple of years of being around paddocks, getting to know how it all works, and also getting to know a few friendly faces. I'd encourage anyone thinking of racing to go to a race meeting and chat to a few people in the series they're thinking of racing in, but I'd also encourage clubs (and individual drivers) to offer to "adopt" new racers, and get them over those early nerves.

I'd never have got involved if it wasn't for all the help and advice I've got from existing drivers over the last couple of years (and my bank balance will never forgive them).

[rallycrosscraig]

to clarify, I was one of the negative comments earlier but fair enough if they do get large grids then hats off to them, thats a good thing.

my reason for posting was imagining that it would be poorly supported (who needs yet more weak series).

I was intially quite interested having run a couple of track day prepared MkII GTi's in the past, but I had a look at the car at the Autosport show and couldnt really see the point in spending the money developing an old car for another budget series, happy doing stock hatch.

Andy, what is the www of for the vw forum, sounds interesting.