Driver Vettel vs Webber: Round 2 - Page 72

Mr V · 11 Nov 2010, 17:36 (Ref:2788684)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

This tells us that the people of 10 Tenths like to argue round in circles.

I eagerly await round 3 next year...assuming Webber doesn't go to Renault.

I wonder if the Kubica vs Webber round 1 thread will be quite so popular

**Adam43** · 11 Nov 2010, 19:10 (Ref:2788750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

Also I've just noticed this thread has the 3rd highest number of posts in the F1 forum, behind only the Spygate thread and last year's silly season thread

I am proud to have started such a monolith

I'd be embarrassed.

Quality not quantity.

**Bononi** · 11 Nov 2010, 19:57 (Ref:2788788)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

I'd be embarrassed.

Quality not quantity.

That's where my "Good job" went for...

Ralf's Girl · 12 Nov 2010, 10:48 (Ref:2789049)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I wonder if the Kubica vs Webber round 1 thread will be quite so popular

Dare I say that it wouldn't take long to come to a conclusion?

mac · 12 Nov 2010, 10:59 (Ref:2789057)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Dare I say that it wouldn't take long to come to a conclusion?

So you are saying Kubica is better than Vettel?

Ralf's Girl · 12 Nov 2010, 12:15 (Ref:2789086)

I certainly think that the gap between Kubica and Webber would be vaster than that between Vettel and Webber...so yes, I suppose that is what I'm saying. Obviously I have no scientific evidence for it as we haven't seen them race in the same team, but I have a suspicion that Kubica would be just as fast but would make less stupid errors.

Does this mean we need a 'Vettel vs Kubica' thread?

**chunterer** · 12 Nov 2010, 12:20 (Ref:2789089)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I certainly think that the gap between Kubica and Webber would be vaster than that between Vettel and Webber...so yes, I suppose that is what I'm saying. Obviously I have no scientific evidence for it as we haven't seen them race in the same team, but I have a suspicion that Kubica would be just as fast but would make less stupid errors.

Does this mean we need a 'Vettel vs Kubica' thread?

Oooh, hoo hoo.......

What have you started R's G ??!!!

dsg · 13 Nov 2010, 03:44 (Ref:2789462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Oooh, hoo hoo.......

What have you started R's G ??!!!

A fishing expedition?

SSbaby · 13 Nov 2010, 04:36 (Ref:2789473)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I certainly think that the gap between Kubica and Webber would be vaster than that between Vettel and Webber...so yes, I suppose that is what I'm saying. Obviously I have no scientific evidence for it as we haven't seen them race in the same team, but I have a suspicion that Kubica would be just as fast but would make less stupid errors.

Does this mean we need a 'Vettel vs Kubica' thread?

That's a big call considering Kubica still doesn't know how to win... simply because he has never won a GP.

Suffice to say, like anybody else with an opinion, I completely disagree with you.

Kubica may be making less mistakes than Vettel but Vettel is not competing mid pack where there isn't the same pressure to excel. Kubica isn't ever expected to win, just beating his team mate will do.

Wims · 13 Nov 2010, 04:37 (Ref:2789474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I certainly think that the gap between Kubica and Webber would be vaster than that between Vettel and Webber...so yes, I suppose that is what I'm saying. Obviously I have no scientific evidence for it as we haven't seen them race in the same team, but I have a suspicion that Kubica would be just as fast but would make less stupid errors.

Does this mean we need a 'Vettel vs Kubica' thread?

Does that mean you rank Quick Nick ahead of Vettel as well, seeing how equal Kubica and Heidfeld was during their years at BMW

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

That's a big call considering Kubica still doesn't know how to win... simply because he has never won a GP.

....

Actually, he did won that GP in Canada in 2008 or whatever when Hamilton crashed into Kimi at the end of the pitlane. During red lights.

Wims · 13 Nov 2010, 04:38 (Ref:2789475)

del

SSbaby · 13 Nov 2010, 04:57 (Ref:2789478)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Actually, he did won that GP in Canada in 2008 or whatever when Hamilton crashed into Kimi at the end of the pitlane. During red lights.

Thanks for that. Without looking it up, I decided to stick to my sometimes unreliable memory... but my point still stands. Kubica is a proven mid pack runner and does indeed have potential. But to place him ahead of Vettel in terms of talent, based on opinion alone is... ummmm...

E.B · 13 Nov 2010, 09:40 (Ref:2789558)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Actually, he did won that GP in Canada in 2008 or whatever when Hamilton crashed into Kimi at the end of the pitlane. During red lights.

Only thanks to team orders, when after the SC Heidfeld and Kubica were on different strategies with fuel levels, Nick heavier than Kubica. With Hamilton and Kimi out when the SC came in Nick was leading the race. When Kubica got within a few car lengths of the heavier Nick, Mario Theissen asked for Nick to allow Kubica past because RK was lighter and so faster. Nick did not delay and immediately did the team thing, and at the very next corner waved Kubica through.

Kubica pulled away but not very fast and by the time all of the pit stop sequence was finished and Kubica made his stop, he rejoined maybe only 1 or 2 seconds ahead of Heidfeld, with them in a BMW 1-2 situation. They were told to hold station by Super Mario, so Kubica held his position and nicked the win.

Had Heidfeld not slowed immediately for Kubica to pass, even if only for one lap, then Kubica would have been able to make the gap he needed to pit and rejoin in the lead. He would have rejoined behind Heidfeld.

In effect Nick gave up what would have been his only (to date) GP win, a race he was comfortably leading. He was leading and would have finished in the lead had it not been for the order to let Robert pass. Robert would certainly without the team help not have been able to pass Heidfeld in such a timely fashion as when Nick waved him through. Actually it was into T1 and Nick braked very early and stayed very wide so Kubica could do it without risk.

So yes maybe Kubica has won a GP and Nick has not but that result is a contrived one. Nick was the true race winner that day, not Kubica.

stripedcat · 13 Nov 2010, 15:41 (Ref:2789685)

Hmmmmm. From the looks of it, it looks like the young scamp Vettel has it. Certainly in the second half of the season he has been the stronger. I think he is probably the best qualifier at the moment.

foreversideways · 13 Nov 2010, 18:11 (Ref:2789734)

Vettel has imposed himself on Webber over the last few races and it showed on Mark's face today. I think Mark is realising that Seb is basically younger and more talented than he is. I guess that hurts.

ralf fan · 13 Nov 2010, 18:33 (Ref:2789750)

Vettel has owned Webber since SPA.

But the Renault engine owned Vettel in Korea.

So eventually when Webber goes to Renault technically Webber owned Vettel.

ASCII Man · 13 Nov 2010, 20:47 (Ref:2789798)

You don't get points for qualifying, though.

wnut · 13 Nov 2010, 21:57 (Ref:2789821)

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.B

Only thanks to team orders, when after the SC Heidfeld and Kubica were on different strategies with fuel levels, Nick heavier than Kubica. With Hamilton and Kimi out when the SC came in Nick was leading the race. When Kubica got within a few car lengths of the heavier Nick, Mario Theissen asked for Nick to allow Kubica past because RK was lighter and so faster. Nick did not delay and immediately did the team thing, and at the very next corner waved Kubica through.

Kubica pulled away but not very fast and by the time all of the pit stop sequence was finished and Kubica made his stop, he rejoined maybe only 1 or 2 seconds ahead of Heidfeld, with them in a BMW 1-2 situation. They were told to hold station by Super Mario, so Kubica held his position and nicked the win.

Had Heidfeld not slowed immediately for Kubica to pass, even if only for one lap, then Kubica would have been able to make the gap he needed to pit and rejoin in the lead. He would have rejoined behind Heidfeld.

In effect Nick gave up what would have been his only (to date) GP win, a race he was comfortably leading. He was leading and would have finished in the lead had it not been for the order to let Robert pass. Robert would certainly without the team help not have been able to pass Heidfeld in such a timely fashion as when Nick waved him through. Actually it was into T1 and Nick braked very early and stayed very wide so Kubica could do it without risk.

So yes maybe Kubica has won a GP and Nick has not but that result is a contrived one. Nick was the true race winner that day, not Kubica.

...and how much were they fined for using team orders again?

wnut · 13 Nov 2010, 22:03 (Ref:2789824)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

You don't get points for qualifying, though.

Not as such, though it does impact massively on where you finish!

ASCII Man · 13 Nov 2010, 22:47 (Ref:2789842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Not as such, though it does impact massively on where you finish!

Not necessarily, many things can happen during the race.
Most people seem to act as if qualifying on pole means an automatic victory, for whatever reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

...and how much were they fined for using team orders again?

Ofcourse they weren't fined for using team orders, they're not called Ferrari, after all.

SSbaby · 13 Nov 2010, 22:53 (Ref:2789845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

You don't get points for qualifying, though.

No, but where one driver gains a massive psychological advantage, the other driver probably suffers a blow of the same magnitude.

It's only qualifying but if you don't make up places before the first corner of the race, you are having to battle more [drivers], and use more of your car to make gains.

It goes without saying.

**Born Racer** · 13 Nov 2010, 23:00 (Ref:2789847)

Webber needs a Button at Brazil 2009-type performance, but he also needs Alonso's race to go very wrong.

Teretonga · 14 Nov 2010, 00:01 (Ref:2789874)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Webber needs a Button at Brazil 2009-type performance, but he also needs Alonso's race to go very wrong.

In reality all three contenders need alonso's 'perfect race' to somewhat less than perfect, although to varying degrees.
alonso is in the box seat. all he has to to do is drive. Hamilton and Button may inadvertently be the spoilers to a Brazil type race and result.

Webber has made a couple of errors, but basically two that may cost him the title. Korea and Q3 at Yas Marina. Korea was a major error, Yas Marina may have simply been a poor team qualifying strategy call.

Mr V · 14 Nov 2010, 00:15 (Ref:2789875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Webber needs a Button at Brazil 2009-type performance, but he also needs Alonso's race to go very wrong.

But that still wouldn't be enough!!

Mr V · 14 Nov 2010, 00:21 (Ref:2789879)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Dare I say that it wouldn't take long to come to a conclusion?

It's official - Petrov is now the best driver on the grid

in quali anyway!!!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
[Driver] Webber VS Vettel	Born Racer	Formula One	1288	6 Nov 2009 01:59
Vettel to McLaren?	Marbot	Formula One	55	18 Oct 2007 07:51
Vettel To The Metal. Vettel/Webber/Hamilton incident.	Hazza	Formula One	404	6 Oct 2007 15:04
Webber-Vettel, what happened?	karimbo	Formula One	10	30 Sep 2007 12:18