Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 24 May 2001, 04:33 (Ref:95791)   #1
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Super Production Racing

How come CAMS doesn't try and help set up a Super Production series. There are literally heaps world wide, they have there own races as part of the ETC, and they are as cheap as Touring Cars get, and it allows heaps of manufacturers to enter, and it would give a chance for a World Series and Aussie teams to contest the ETC, it could replace Super Touring.
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 24 May 2001, 04:50 (Ref:95798)   #2
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A fair pit of the issue would be that we already have GTP, and it isn't really production car racing anymore, and plus as TOCA has found out, this sort of class doesn't work in Australia. They actually opened up last year's field to Super Produciton, a couple of people said they were building cars, but by seasons end, there were none to be seen.

TOCA have pretty much replaced Super Touring with Future Touring- that's where their competitors are going. As far as a world cup goes, I don't know if a private Australian entrant would have a chance when put up next to the might of some of the European heavyweights.

Don't get me wrong, I would dearly love to see a world touring car circus travel all over the countryside, but just the last time it was done...errrmmm....it was a bit of a gooey mess.
Crash Test is offline  
__________________
Love you long time
Quote
Old 25 May 2001, 17:40 (Ref:96553)   #3
Craig
Race Official
Veteran
 
Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1998
Denmark
Posts: 10,992
Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!Craig has a real shot at the championship!
I thought Bathurst was supposed to be the world cup of TC racing...? But, as you say, an outsider coming in really is never gonna stand a chance against a local driver...
Craig is offline  
Quote
Old 26 May 2001, 04:05 (Ref:96726)   #4
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How can bathurst be the world cup of touring car racing, the race is know for old technology pieces of **** which have no rlevence to the rest of the world. I consider we are a joke of a touring car series and i am embarrassed whenever i go overseas to say that in Australia we race the tanks we do.
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 26 May 2001, 06:42 (Ref:96758)   #5
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hmmm, the engines may date back to the 50s, and they are crude in a few areas, but heck, they work! And the crowd loves them, and they race at Bathrust...
Crash Test is offline  
__________________
Love you long time
Quote
Old 27 May 2001, 11:37 (Ref:97195)   #6
DAVID PATERSON
Veteran
 
DAVID PATERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 5,549
DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Racer69 you have just displayed ignorance of a vast order. The cars have a cast iron block and OHV. The old fashioned low tech ends right there. Have a look at the brakes, suspension, wheels, injection, engine management, etc. and tell me just how low tech and old fashioned these things are.

As for being pieces of ****, well I suppose you'd knock one back if it was offered to you right? They are among the best, most exciting and most impressive touring cars raced anywhere in the world and certainly among the best cars of any category raced in Australia.

Craig, I don't think anyone really believes that Bathurst is the world cup of Touring Cars. Some diehards like to believe that only a local can do well at Bathurst, but time and again, many of Europe's best have come to Bathurst and done well. A few of them have even won the bloody race.
DAVID PATERSON is offline  
Quote
Old 27 May 2001, 13:33 (Ref:97247)   #7
Ray Bell
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location:
Various parts of Australia
Posts: 2,221
Ray Bell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes, David, a few have... but only in locally prepared cars, as guest drivers.

But let's look a little further at the points you both (or all) raise.

Low tech may well end at the foundry, but what about the cost factors and low-level of return seen for all that trickery. In the engine, sure, fuel injection, engine management and rev limiters are giving enormous horsepower and ensuring great reliability. Sticking with that is a good idea.

But how much is it costing for the other stuff and to what end? The adjustable camber setups on the 'live axle' Commodore rear ends is nothing short of an expensive joke! A technical masterpiece, but hardly reflective of the live axles it is supposed to represent, and a lot of money for little return, with more parts to break and necessitate replacement.

What the V8 tourers do have is lots of spectator appeal. They can retain this with a downgrading of their technical specification, reducing the gap between the haves and the have-nots, though testing will always ensure the wealthier teams have the best chance.

That said, even with a downgrading in spec, they are hardly tanks!

They are all beautifully prepared, with fabrication that befits the name and body styles in concert with what the rest of the world has to offer.

Moreover, the base cars do a good job in regular service, while they are also able to withstand outback conditions better than almost anything you can import!
Ray Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 27 May 2001, 22:04 (Ref:97482)   #8
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
"..testing will always ensure the wealthier teams have the best chance."
-The problem these days is that there is a restriction on testing- only 12 days per year. Who does this advantage? The new teams who have no experience with the cars and how they should be set up/driven.
Crash Test is offline  
__________________
Love you long time
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 00:48 (Ref:97551)   #9
Ray Bell
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location:
Various parts of Australia
Posts: 2,221
Ray Bell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It clearly advantages those who have the testing experience and the resources to make the changes quickest. The big teams.
Ray Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 04:56 (Ref:97620)   #10
RaceTime
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,449
RaceTime should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And yet I have been to test sessions for HRT at Ph Island where they have allowed a dozen or so other cars to also use the track while they have it booked - this helped a couple of the smaller Holden teams in March as they wouldn't have been able to afford the track by themselves.
RaceTime is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 05:12 (Ref:97622)   #11
Ray Bell
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location:
Various parts of Australia
Posts: 2,221
Ray Bell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm referring to them having the ability to translate the results of their tests into improvements...

And the ability to get that information in the limited time available, and to try the changes.
Ray Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 05:27 (Ref:97625)   #12
RaceTime
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,449
RaceTime should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not disputing that but there is also being able to physically get on the track. There is no doubting Phillip Island is one of the best tracks for testing but how many of the smaller one car teams can afford $2,500 a day - so any chance to get on there is beneficial to them.
RaceTime is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 05:55 (Ref:97632)   #13
Ray Bell
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location:
Various parts of Australia
Posts: 2,221
Ray Bell should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Funny, and I may be wrong, but if I hired Winton (how much does it cost a day?) and ran both circuits, and also did a session or two in the wrong direction on the short circuit, I think I'd have most combinations covered except really fast corners.
Ray Bell is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 06:12 (Ref:97633)   #14
RaceTime
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,449
RaceTime should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ray,

Now you're getting into the realms of fantasy.

By both circuits - what do you mean? There is a long and short circuit - that's all - they aren't two seperate tracks.

And none of them can be run reverse direction - they do not have a licence for it - CAMS saw to that with the introduction of the so-called Melbourne curbs - they can only be run one direction. Plus, all flag points are situated for clockwise racing - you would need new positions for anti-clockwise racing.

The only track I am aware of in Australiasia that can run either direction is Manfeild in New Zealand.
RaceTime is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 08:18 (Ref:97679)   #15
racer69
Veteran
 
racer69's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Australia
Sydney, Australia
Posts: 10,040
racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
all this from me suggesting we have a Super Production series in Australia
racer69 is offline  
__________________
"The Great Race"
22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 08:23 (Ref:97683)   #16
RaceTime
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,449
RaceTime should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
LOL - well they already have their own meetings don't they?
RaceTime is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 08:24 (Ref:97685)   #17
DAVID PATERSON
Veteran
 
DAVID PATERSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Australia
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 5,549
DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yeah amazing isn't it, how off topic did we get?

Really, I don't think we'll get Super Production while ever Ross Palmer has his GTP series. CAMS don't like classes that are too similar in concept.
DAVID PATERSON is offline  
Quote
Old 28 May 2001, 11:52 (Ref:97760)   #18
Crash Test
Veteran
 
Crash Test's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Australia
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 9,208
Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hehehe...yeah, sort of like the Power Tour's Ute series....ooops!

I guess QLD teams have it lucky, they only have two tracks to chose from, and combining the two you have nearly every different type of corner. At QR they could use the cross overs to simulate certain corners if the need ever arised. There they can run a part of the infield section in the wrong direction, but that is just about the extent of it.
Crash Test is offline  
__________________
Love you long time
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Variations on a theme: C5 'production based racing' pgtr Sportscar & GT Racing 11 29 Jun 2004 06:17
Super Truck Racing gttouring Virtual Racers 2 12 Nov 2003 00:25
Should BMW Italy convert a Super Production car to the new ETCC rules for next year?? Michael H Touring Car Racing 2 13 Oct 2001 11:06


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.