Formula Holden Should It Change

[RALFANATOR]

I think FH should open up to all makes of engines and be more F3000 .
Mainly so our up a coming can have more of a head start for o/s races and so other make can actual be able to get invloed in motorsport in this country as HOLDEN / FORD have way to much of a monopoly. It would inject more money into the sport . what do u think

[Crash Test]

I don't think that there is anything fundametally wrong with the Formula Holden concept- I don't think there is a problem with the cars, heck, from what I can gather they are faster than F3000 cars anyways. They have proven to be a great stepping stone, look at Lowndes, Bright, Bargwanna, Dixon, Murphy, Kelly, Larkham etc etc, it has made its fair share of great drivers. I'm certain more of them would have made it overseas if they received a large wad of cash.

The reason for the old F3000 chassis is cost. They are dirt cheap compared to having new chassis made by multiple manufacturers every year. Also, the reason why there is a spec engine is cost related. It would defeat the purpose of the championship if the person with the biggest and best, most powerful, and therefore most expensive engine won every race.

What would probably get more money into the class would be if they appealed to the crowds more. V8s have all the money because the fans love them. Probably FHolden's problem is that it doesn't appeal to the people who make up the numbers in the crowd, possibly because they don't come over as exciting enough. Perhaps if they chunked up the exhaust, or even if they upgraded to some form of stock block V8 (hey, if it's got a V8 in it, it's bound to be popular! ).

Moving OS? Why not, from what I can gather NZ love them, and they wouldn't suffer from the Commodore/Falcon recognition problem in Asia.

[DAVID PATERSON]

According to my pedant's society manual, Ford and Holden have a duopoly.

[marcus]

I believe there is nothing wrong with the chassis at all in Formula holden..it is the engines..sure they are very powerfull but as crash test has said they dont sound that great ..they need to be made to sound more "tough" in my opinion...using the european engines would be the best solution but the costs would rise dramatically..so this is probably not the best solution..but for the drivers this would be the best avenue to go down as it could open up more oppotunities overseas for them.

I didnt know they were faster than f3000 cars..but if this is the case then why arent more of our drivers being given the chance in Europe???

cash ..thats why ..but this is not the topic for why our guys are not getting a go its about whats going on here.

I love the series and think its one of the best we have ..but they do need to do something about the engines.

[Diabando]

I got some bad news for you guys...

This weekend at Phillip Island (Konica), you will see a new class - Formula 3. If this takes off (and it will), then it will probably replace Formula Holden as the support race to the big V8's next year.

I really enjoy Formula Holden, and I dont want to see it go, but unless somebody does something about the cost of running/racing these machines, it will be gone.

[Crash Test]

That's exactly right- already a number of competitors have jumped ship from FHolden to F3. Obviously cost, and also that F3 are directly comparable to overseas series is what gets the competitors over. Plus in their first proper year they have places running alongside the Procar series and the Konica's has got to help.

[Ray Bell]

I'd be interested to see some facts and figures on the comparitive speeds of F3000 and FHolden... I don't think the V6 would be within a bull's roar... unless it's a tyre thing.

F3 is certainly an exciting prospect, but for Australian 'fans' to take their eyes off the tin-tops they'd be better off adding a couple of cylinders to the FHolden cars... return to F5000...

Oh, yes... with the extra 150hp today would bring... and F1 gearboxes that would cop the torque.

[marcus]

actually im very excited about F3 in Oz...it is also going to get TV coverage through Pay Tv so I will be looking forward to that...this is definately a step forward for the class and openwheeler racing in Australia in general...but as for the Formula Holden thing...Ray I believe you maybe onto something by adding a couple of cylinders

[Ray Bell]

And not just for the burnouts...

[Crash Test]

I think it was something said some time ago, when FHolden was running 92 model cars, and F3000 95 model cars, which had most of their downforce taken away from them. Basically I think these days the 92 model cars aren't on the pace because they are old.

I agree, V8 them, but can FHolden teams afford F1 transmissions??

I read in AA today some of the things Malcolm Ramsay plans to do to get the class going again.

- More international drivers
- Introducing an alloy block, overhead camshaft V6 (lighter, more reliable)
- Introducing a new chassis that is currently being used in the US (made by Reynard)
- Get the up and coming drivers to go through FHolden rather than go to the Konica series etc.

[Ray Bell]

I don't suppose Malcolm said what V6 he was looking at, nor how he knew it would be more reliable. He undoubtedly would have said 'more powerful' if he expected it to be, so it probably won't...

And the new chassis, how much more will they cost?

Just how he dictates what clas drivers take on their path to the top escapes me as well...

Shame, good ideas, perhaps, but mere words.

[DNQ]

I think Formula Holden is fine, and has served it's purpose as a feeder series. I personnaly believe that F3 is not series threat to Formula Holden, they are completely different.

[Ray Bell]

Can I just ask, DNQ, feeder series to what?

The formula is the one that produces a new Australian Champion driver, is it not? It's the pinnacle of racing in Australia!

And so far, it's hardly fed anyone to Formula One, has it?

[Crash Test]

Can I just ask, DNQ, feeder series to what?

The formula is the one that produces a new Australian Champion driver, is it not? It's the
pinnacle of racing in Australia!

And so far, it's hardly fed anyone to Formula One, has it?

A feeder series to V8s! I am yet to see anyone graduate from Supercars to Formula Holden....but every man and his dog have gone the other way.

It may produce the National Champion, and it may be the fastest class, but really, that doesn't mean anything to anyone these days. Heck, they only got 13 cars to their last round, that barely qualifies it as a championship round!

Mark Webber is as close to buggery to F1 as any Aussie has managed in a while, but it has fed a lot of talent into Europe and the States...the problem of course is when they get there, they realise they need money...

[Ray Bell]

I guess I still suffer from being a purist...

I would have thought openwheelers were the upper class, no matter where or when.

[Crash Test]

You're right.

F1 is still the pinacle of the sport, even if it has lost its sport, it isn't the best form of the sport anymore...

Really it is sad, I'd love nothing more than to see full fields of our fastest racing class, with international visitors, and the fanfare that goes with being the best driver in the land....but these days it just isn't the way.

Money money money....

[marcus]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And not just for the burnouts...

Geez ray your like a dog with a bone

anyway i agree with all that you guys have said ..but just how malcolm Ramsey will do what he says remains to be seen..sure the engine and chassis things are good but how is he going to persued drivers to drive in the class ???

is the prizemoney any good ???
anyway i wish him luck with it and hope that this truly great class of racing can return to the way it was 2 or 3 years ago or even last year for that matter.

[Ray Bell]

Only with money, I would say... it's such a motivator.

TV exposure would help as well, as they could seriously sell sponsorship with that, but it really sounds like he has another engine manufacturer in mind, and possibly series backing from that source... but who?

This guy has a bent for the cryptic, though... once, looking over one of his cars (in the Birrana days...) he pointed to something he didn't like and said: "That's a bit Elfin..."

[elephino]

F3000 is quicker than FHolden. No questions asked. The engine power is more.

F3 isn't very new here actually..depending on definition. In the current regs which are comparable to Europe, have been in since last year I believe. This is the category's first run without F2 bolstering the field and as a championship. The first race of the championship at Oran Park was excellent and at Wakefield Park they put on a good show as well.

[RALFANATOR]

Funny this days after I posted this topic.Crsah Test listed all those points earlier . BUT sadly all these points are nothing but a bandaid fix and worse than that are very short trem . The Answer to FH problem is very simply they should stop trying to be a feeder class and start leading they also need to expand and upgrade the class . We all want drivers (young driver) to move foward but also the land of OZ greatest motorsport's tresure is not just drivers its the tech's .
with nearly half the JORDON F1 team being aussies & also in ohter teams like FARRARI & WILLAMS and now with MR PUAL STODDART more opertunity is needed for AUSSIE openwheeler team to step up and THE ONLY WAY IS TO GO F3000 not because everything is avaible up data and comprastion can be made be the people who matter such as F1 TEAMS (for the yuong drivers) and by BIG BERNIE himself (for the up and coming teams ) as more & more focus is on a more open & diverse F1 C/SHIP (location,s) .
If F/H got off its ass and stepped out of V8 supercars shaddow and made some bold move and made a five /ten year plan maybe AUSTRALIA could even challenge the U.K for right to the "home of motorsport " tag because with the right planing F/H could hold the key to AUSSIE motorsport future.
(this is just my idea's )
1. F/H TO BE RENAMED AUSTRALIAN F3000
2. TAKE ALL O/S F3000 RULE (its worked over there)
3. AUSTRALIAN F3000 (AF3000) TALK'S TO AF3 & FORMULA FORD & FORMULA VEE AND HAVE A OPENWHEELER C/SHIP AWAY FROM V8 SUPERCARS
4.DON'T COMPETE ON V8'S CARDS (all open wheelers that is)
5.AF3000 TALKS TO T.V & CABLE
6.AF3000 TALK WITH ASIA FOR ASIA PACIFIC C/SHIP HELD AT ALL MAIN EVENTS LIKE(OZF1 MALASYIA F1 OZCART CHINAFI JAPANFI JAPANCART & NZ)
7.AF3000 TO BE HELD IN AS MANY TRACKS IN OZ AS POSSIBLE
8.AF3000 TALKS TOP AVECSO TO RUN ON ALTERNATE WEEKENDS & EXCEPT O/S ROUNDS
9.ALL THESE OPITON'S WOULD ATRACT O/S INTERREST & COULD EVEN MAKE IT THE F3000 SHOW CASE (DARE I SAY IT)

Now some people mit not like the fact that F/H move away from the V8'S but remember its competing with that class and its only hurting F/H (AF3000) if it stays there plus the upside if all the openwheeler's leave the fold and that is
1. lites onto the same card
2. more time for longer races or more races
3. more tin top catergoies could pop up or old ones step up (like maybe old group C)
note these are just some ideas I have nothing more what do u guys think I LIKE TO SUBMIT THESE IDEA'S TO F/H whata reckon
4. MORE RACING ON T.V & MORE EVENTS TO GO TO

[RALFANATOR]

just a p.s on my last entry
I didn't run a spell check
on the last paragraph there is suppose to be a "NOT"
F/H IS NOT COMPETING WITH V8'S
the last paragraph are options for the v8's IF OPENWHHELERS move away.
and I spell CRASH TEST wrong to



thanx & sorry for the typo

[Ray Bell]

Take all those steps and something very interesting could happen, something that the Queensland Vee Association dreamed of doing a few years ago...

Run a whole race meeting for openwheelers, and promote it as such!

Just imagine, F3, ANF2, FF, FVee and AF3000 or FHolden, with races for Historic classes including F5000 and FAtlantic combined, and the old ANF1.5 mixed with Juniors, and the old ANF2 1.6 twin cams!

Plenty of variety, some of the fields could run in races mixed by grades for one race apiece.

Wonder how many would come to see them? I think a lot of people would get a big surprise!

[marcus]

well I would definately go and see this kind of meeting..no souped up road cars on the bill would be fantastic..I like your ideas Ralfanator and i think this kind of plan is a risky one but it could possibly work..the problem is would the average punter attend a meeting with cars that they cant tell apart and drivers that they dont know...(theres no Brocks or johnsons or Ingalls so they may not go)

but I think the motorsport public and people who follow these series would attend it in droves.

[Crash Test]

Doesn't Wakefield Park from time to time run Historic Open Wheeler meeting?

The problem that FHolden, FFord etc have is that the for the most part, Australia has a tin-top culture. Sure, all of us around here would love to seeit happen, and would turn up. The problem is that we don't make up the majority of the Australian motorsport audience.

To be honest with you, nothing in the world scares me more than Formula Ford, having witnessed some awesome raicng over the years from that class- especially at Lakeside, there is no denying that they are brilliant. The thing is that they don't make a big noise, and Mark Skaife/Craig Lowndes don't drive them. Look at the Konica series- same cars, better racing, but no superstar factor.

Also there is the problem of numbers. GTP was in a way forced to have their own meetings- their grids were massive, and couldn't be put any where else. But FHolden- 12 cars- probably wouldn't be too much of a spectacle. Even FFord as on a bit of a downer at the moment, i don't think people realise how much it is to stay competitive at the front of the National field.

Sure if they had their own meetings, fields may grow. But at this stage im a sceptic.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I'm with Marcus and Crash Test here, real race fans would probably go to such a meeting, but the beer swilling boofheads who go to the races once or twice a year, would give it a wide berth. Unfortunately they outnumber us about 100-1, so it's their dollars that the promoters are chasing.