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Old 7 Oct 2016, 02:52 (Ref:3677999)   #61
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I bet they'll just say **** it and end up banning non-hybrids for 2018, leaving dumb-spec LMP2 and LMP3 as only places for privateers to join. Well unless someone like Glickenhaus actually does go hybrid against all odds, but that is extremely unlikely. Kolles will withdraw with no place to run non-spec, non-proam, non-costcap entries.
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 02:53 (Ref:3678001)   #62
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Reminded me of this old thread...

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145893
Me too! it seems like we had that discussion already when the current LMP1-Privateer cars showed up.
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 04:07 (Ref:3678008)   #63
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They did last year when CLM was running by themselves for the start. And in GT1 when Larbre run alone for half of the season in 2010.

Of course, having needless ceremony for one car is just as lame as it is (was) for 2-3 cars.

Anyway, now I also can/have to declare all of this to be hopeless. LMP1 is 100% factory category now. Followed by two dumbed down spec pro-am privateer prototype classes below, followed by BoP-GTs. CLM will be the Deltawing.
Well it's a good thing you don't even watch the wec! It shouldn't really affect you right?
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 09:48 (Ref:3678073)   #64
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Hopefully someone will buy rebellions P1-L cars for a trail run. Seems odd to swap from the Toyota v8 lump, spending all that money on fitting the AER engines, to then bin the whole project.

Glick, Redbull or Alpine would be nice.




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Old 7 Oct 2016, 12:04 (Ref:3678094)   #65
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Originally Posted by Mike E View Post
“The pace of these new LMP2 cars is forecast to be significantly quicker than the current cars and with high levels of competition between the teams and the cars, the challenge is very attractive to Rebellion Racing, we are looking forward to this new adventure.”

Translation: the new LMP2s will be faster than our LMP1.
I would seriously hold my breath on that statement!
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 12:06 (Ref:3678095)   #66
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With this, I wonder if the ACO will even bother implementing their proposed attempt to BOP LMP1 factory vs LMP1 privateer with only one car confirmed for LMP1 privateer? The measures proposed were a 65mm vs 50mm lip in the splitter section of the front diffuser, and a 150mm vs 200mm rear diffuser exit.

I wonder if the ACO will bother now, or even ever, since there's new rules coming in for 2018.
Or perhaps the factory entries have told them to kill that?
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 12:54 (Ref:3678101)   #67
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Some thinking out loud here, how similar are the chassis rules for P1 and P2 in 2017?
I'm asking because there was talk of allowing all pro lineups in P2 and they could call "All Pro" P2, LMP1 privateer (I know it would be confusing but when has the ACO made things clear)

This is very similar to DPI but won't have the manufacturer body kit and engines which the ACO won't want
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 17:35 (Ref:3678161)   #68
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Well it's a good thing you don't even watch the wec! It shouldn't really affect you right?
I don't care what they run elsewhere but still plan to watch Le Mans so it kinda does.

I'm sure with micro 7 car LMP1 field (!!!!!???) and increased pace of LMP2 the chances of them getting into overall positions 4-5 or even to the podium at LM is more likely, however achieving it with some standard clone cost-cap pro-am spec car is infinitely less interesting than with what the alternative is.
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 17:48 (Ref:3678169)   #69
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I don't care what they run elsewhere but still plan to watch Le Mans so it kinda does.

I'm sure with micro 7 car LMP1 field (!!!!!???) now at Le Mans the chances of LMP2 getting into overall positions 4-5 or even to the podium is pretty damn likely, however achieving it with some standard clone cost-cap pro-am spec car is infinitely less interesting than with what the alternative is.
Toyota may have 3 cars and Kolles might have 2 so that total can be 8 or 9, equal or one more than this year had. I don't know what your deal is with Rebellion going to lmp2. They didn't stand a chance and neither does Kolles in lmp1. Your issue with lmp2 is pretty trivial imo. The only cars up there were Ligier and Oreca. I think losing the BR01 and Gibson is sad, but they're not very competitive. Hopefully the 4 chassis have a pretty equal performance. I'd rather see that then the same two cars/teams winning (Alpine).
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 18:06 (Ref:3678175)   #70
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Toyota may have 3 cars and Kolles might have 2 so that total can be 8 or 9, equal or one more than this year had. I don't know what your deal is with Rebellion going to lmp2. They didn't stand a chance and neither does Kolles in lmp1. Your issue with lmp2 is pretty trivial imo. The only cars up there were Ligier and Oreca. I think losing the BR01 and Gibson is sad, but they're not very competitive. Hopefully the 4 chassis have a pretty equal performance. I'd rather see that then the same two cars/teams winning (Alpine).
I grant you the third Toyota as semi realistic possibility but second CLM is just as fantastical pipe dream as it was for this year.

Whether or not there were numerous rivals to Oreca and Onroak (+ the market dominating Nissan-Zytek engine) in current LMP2 is besides the point, it's the possibility of other weirdos like Dome and SMP and whomever having the chance. Now they cannot. Added that the lame cost cap, pro-am, development freeze, spec parts ideology that is all there to dumb it down. The only freedom they didn't rob away seems to be the open tire choice, which I guess while something is not enough. Also don't give rats ass about 'equal performance', but for me that's pretty self explanatory. That may seem trivial to you but not to me. So we'll disagree.

Though I think we can at least see eye to eye on the fact that at least they're not performance balancing everything on round by round basis like in the US, or in GTE. So that is good.

Btw the old open top Zytek is still pretty damn competitive (in right hands).
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 18:24 (Ref:3678182)   #71
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It's lmp2, not lmp1. You want to go ahead with your special or unique car, go to the pro category. Not the pro-am 'little leagues' p2. This is the reason why they made p2 a four chassis class. Why should you let these manufacturers run in p2? Cheap wins imo. Like Signatech Alpine. They should be in p1 with Kolles. Use the GTR LM V6 and an upgraded Oreca 07. It's not the ideal thing with only 4 cars to choose from, but they need to promote lmp1 more and give a better package to privateer teams. 750, 800kg and a big tank without fuel flow meters.
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Old 7 Oct 2016, 18:32 (Ref:3678183)   #72
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The basic idea of LMP2 is fine. In a category called LMP3. That is where it belongs. In third rate division. Conceptual LMP2-2017 and LMP3 should be combined in one category called... LMP3 What's the point of having two categories with same ideology? The only ideological difference seems to be the budget requirement. Perversely LMP3 even has more chassis makes.

LMP1 non-hybrid needs more carrots for it to work sure, that's given, but in reality at this stage I'm pretty sure everybody (incl ACO) has given up already. It's just a bag of empty promises.

And hollow sticker-"manufacturers" like "Alpine" ain't going anywhere unless they're strictly told to move up, they're not gonna spend anymore money than required unless outside push is given. It's the cost of giving away success with ease.
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Old 8 Oct 2016, 12:49 (Ref:3678384)   #73
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I would seriously hold my breath on that statement!
Ok, not entirely serious. But Rebellion's fastest lap at LM this year was a 3:26.8. The fastest LMP2 lap was a 3:36.2. Onroak reckon their simulations are predicting 3:30 for the Ligier at LM next year.

Let's see. The proof will be in the pudding.
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Old 8 Oct 2016, 13:03 (Ref:3678386)   #74
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Ok, not entirely serious. But Rebellion's fastest lap at LM this year was a 3:26.8. The fastest LMP2 lap was a 3:36.2. Onroak reckon their simulations are predicting 3:30 for the Ligier at LM next year.

Let's see. The proof will be in the pudding.
Whilst they may not be faster, it does mean that should Rebellion have even a slight issue in any race that requires a garage stop, they'll get beaten by over half the LMP2 grid.

So again from Rebellions point of view - why spend lots more money to only be a little faster?

I'm also thinking the R-One can be upgraded to modern LMP2 spec. Rebellion did say they were staying in LMP1-L rather than DPi because they already had a car and it was easier and safer. If moving into LMP2 just means upgrades to the R-One, then that's relatively cheap and easy to do.
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Old 8 Oct 2016, 14:08 (Ref:3678397)   #75
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One would assume that given the obvious similarities between the R-One and the Oreca 05. How similar/identical the chassis are is debatable, but the R-One parentage in the 05 is plainly obvious, and overall, they do share the same basic tub design.

How different in detail I don't know and outside of RCE and DSC, I don't think anyone has a clear idea of what exactly is different or how homologation would work here.
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