Nissan LMP1 Discussion

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by TF110

Nissan wants to win LeMans outright.

No. Porsche wants to win Le Mans outright, so they began preparation to debut a competitive LMP1 car in the first round of 2014 while Nissan got on the tricycle bandwagon (aka Bowlby's IndyCar reject programme).

In this statement Cox does sound more committed, yet he mentioned at least two possible excuses in case it doesn't happen. 1). board approval pending 2). "We are not doing this in a conventional way" so there's a high chance Nissan will put forward certain conditions for ACO regarding some creative rule-making so that another iteration Bowlby's g56 wacky racer is admitted and allowed to be competitive in LMP1.

So far this is as much of a news as the endless Ferrari considering Le Mans story. Except in this case we all know what the politics is really about. I'm with deggis here. This is the kind of story Autosport is known for lately.

Originally Posted by Adam43

This forum is full of people who try to prove their worth with cynicism. However, frankly, it isn't real until that car is on track. That is because, the press, the posters on forums and even the team talk crap based on no facts whatsoever and you can't tell the difference between that and reality, because the words on your screen look the same. It's internet cry wolf.

Don't simplify. There is also the context of previous activity and statements by those from whom the words on the screen originate. Would identical LMP1 programme announcements coming from Mercedes and Zoran Stefanović look the same to you?

[Gingers4Justice]

I'm ever so sorry I forgot to put a question mark in the title.

I'll try not to get excited about anything in future.

[Pandamasque]

Nobody's saying that a full-on Nissan LMP1 effort wouldn't be exciting. But recent experience suggest that there an equal chance it may not happen or worse, it may happen in a way that would eventually drive existing teams out of the class. Name one category where Nissan has recently had any kind of works involvement where their car ran to the rules of the class without receiving considerable help from the organizers.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Don't simplify. There is also the context of previous activity and statements by those from whom the words on the screen originate. Would identical LMP1 programme announcements coming from Mercedes and Zoran Stefanović look the same to you?

I'm not simplifying, I'm generalising. Thus my concern and frustration that discussions concerning announcements from manufacturers or random dudes develop in similar ways. That's why some will need to see cars on track.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Pandamasque has it nailed. The ACO has publically come out saying they want an LMP1 effort in exchange for a second G56 being granted to Nissan, effectively enbarrassing Nissan and trying to force their hand. Nissan is now covering their bases wih a non-comittal comminent, no doubt lobbying to get a rule set they see as preferential, that way if they don't show, due to not having their technology allowed, they aren't the bad guys. There is much going on behind the scenes I am sure. Allowing the ZEOD into P1 would make the class a farce, the ACO needs to protect the investments of the other P1 entries. I want to see Nissan in P1, but with a car that plays by the rules.

[vincegail]

So this is all one big poker play? And autosport.com has been used as Nissan's dealer/croupier in order to mask Nissan's double 3's and let the ACO believe Nissan will play a full house or a flush?

Don't like it at all!

[TF110]

I will be smiling when theres a big NISMO sponsorship with the red P1 sticker next year. I think all this noise is to drum up excitement. Some may think its because Nissan wants the PR. Of course they do. But imagine the bad PR if they dont show. Imagine the PR if Dr.P wins his suit and Nissan has nothing to run at Le Mans! Surely theyre smarter than that!

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by TF110

I will be smiling when theres a big NISMO sponsorship with the red P1 sticker next year. I think all this noise is to drum up excitement. Some may think its because Nissan wants the PR. Of course they do. But imagine the bad PR if they dont show. Imagine the PR if Dr.P wins his suit and Nissan has nothing to run at Le Mans! Surely theyre smarter than that!

PR-wise, the troth is that it doesn't really matter to the board of a large mainstream automotive manufacturer what a bunch of enthusiasts on the forum think. Their g56 efforts are directed at a much wider audience and have been a great success. Nissan did persuade much of the general public that DW was a worthwhile innovation, 'the future'. And most of that was done through non-motorsport outlets whose writers were also genuinely excited about this new unusual thing and weren't knowledgeable enough to ask the obvious questions. In the same way Nissan can hypothetically spin a story about retrograde ACO stifling innovation by not allowing their new vehicle into P1.

As for 'autosport.com being used', it's not the first time and not the last. Many websites will post anything to get clicks, just like tabloids will publish things to sell copies. The recent Ferrari/Le Mans story is actually somewhat valid right now (here's a good one), but some sites were spinning up that rumour mill for years when there was very little grounds for it to be even mentioned apart from helping Luca the horse whisperer negotiate something with the FOM.

[MagVanisher]

I'm excited that Nissan will return to Le Mans as a LMP1 team, but I don't think they'll win it outright.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I'm excited that Nissan will return to Le Mans as a LMP1 team, but I don't think they'll win it outright.

What makes you think they are not going to win outright?

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by deltawing

What makes you think they are not going to win outright?

We don't even know how or what they will enter for 2015, if they enter... So yeah really hard to make a decent prediction.

[JoestForEver]

Easy guys, easy. Porsche cannot even claim to win in the first time and where all the confidence come from? Favoring rules of deltawing? Believing they are better than Peugeot or Porsche? Sorry to say but far from it.
Tired of reading smug comments before even confirming something, seriously.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Easy guys, easy. Porsche cannot even claim to win in the first time and where all the confidence come from? Favoring rules of deltawing? Believing they are better than Peugeot or Porsche? Sorry to say but far from it.
Tired of reading smug comments before even confirming something, seriously.

Are you talking to me? What smug comments? A guy makes a comment, saying that he thinks about something and I am asking him why he is thinking that way... what is the problem? I just find it very interesting to find out why people think the way they think.

[Breinig]

Originally Posted by isynge

I suspect Nissan's 2015 budget will only be officially signed off much later in 2014, much like every other large company.

I very much doubt that this is a question of annual budgets. 2015 budget will not be signed of before Oct 2014.

This shall be a multi-year project. As in any large company, the decision is not going to be taken on an annual basis but on a project basis. Once a decision for the project is taken, the budget shall be principally defined for the upcoming years, of course allowing annual adjustments (the extreme case exercised by Peugoet).

The board has to do a go or halt decision for the project, they may do that anytime during a year.

I would agree that this is the answer to ACO's demand, without being really committed. At the same time I would expect to get the clarification latest in June. If they want to kick off such a project, they will need to start soon.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

PR-wise, the troth is that it doesn't really matter to the board of a large mainstream automotive manufacturer what a bunch of enthusiasts on the forum think. Their g56 efforts are directed at a much wider audience and have been a great success. Nissan did persuade much of the general public that DW was a worthwhile innovation, 'the future'. And most of that was done through non-motorsport outlets whose writers were also genuinely excited about this new unusual thing and weren't knowledgeable enough to ask the obvious questions. In the same way Nissan can hypothetically spin a story about retrograde ACO stifling innovation by not allowing their new vehicle into P1.

As for 'autosport.com being used', it's not the first time and not the last. Many websites will post anything to get clicks, just like tabloids will publish things to sell copies. The recent Ferrari/Le Mans story is actually somewhat valid right now (here's a good one), but some sites were spinning up that rumour mill for years when there was very little grounds for it to be even mentioned apart from helping Luca the horse whisperer negotiate something with the FOM.

Winning Le Mans is a goal for the company. Positive PR can be achieved in plenty of ways. Winning Le Mans overall can be achieved in only one way. If their zeod fails or if its even ruled as a copyright infringement, what happens to that press they wanted? It turns sour. The big picture is the winners. Other cars like the dw are still in the news because one guy doesn't want to let it go.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by JoestForEver

Easy guys, easy. Porsche cannot even claim to win in the first time and where all the confidence come from? Favoring rules of deltawing? Believing they are better than Peugeot or Porsche? Sorry to say but far from it.
Tired of reading smug comments before even confirming something, seriously.

Personally I'd rather read a smug comment than a completely unnecessary one.......

[gustavobamba]

This whole story around the Nissan LMP1 depends all on the action that D. Panoz put against Nissan Zeod RC Le Mans car.

If Zeod cannot race at Le Mans, Nissan LMP1 will not exist. If Zeod run Nissan will advance to the LMP1. After all the talk, if they do not advance will be bad for the image of Nissan.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

...If Zeod cannot race at Le Mans, Nissan LMP1 will not exist....

What a bold statement! Did you come up with it alone or someone helped you?

[Aysedasi]

You can disagree of course, but leave the sarcasm at home.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by deltawing

What a bold statement! Did you come up with it alone or someone helped you?

Alone , this is just my opinion.

If you like to use sarcasm, for me ok i don´t care.

I´m from Portugal, a country that has lived many years in dictatorship but now people are free to have their opinion.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

You can disagree of course, but leave the sarcasm at home.

But then what would you like this thread to be about - people who just come out and shoot whatever comes out from their head, without having the slightest clue what they are talking about? ..... And what do we do - we politely waste half an hour to compose a valid response to let them politely and gently know how whatever they are saying is just so far from reality and that they should be not wasting their time, but most of all our time by simply guessing the weather?...

Just pause for a second and think about what he said. I hope you realize how incredibly ridiculous statement that was! Sarcasm comes out when someone calls for it. I really do not want to be sarcastic, please believe me on that. I so much want to take this place and its people seriously. But there are posts that are complete waste of time and space, it is hard to just walk by and say nothing. What is the value of this thread (or others) if this is just an exercise of everybody shooting out whatever crosses their mind, at any time of the day?..... But that said, no worries, there will be no more sarcasm from my end.

[deltawing]

Gustavo,

Opinion is something that looks like: "I believe this is not going to happen because ..... "

Or something like: "I think this may never happen, because...."

Or perhaps even: "It it my personal opinion that ....... "

What you wrote is a statement. At least I read it as a statement, because there was nothing that indicates otherwise. The kind of statement that informs others of something you know for a fact and others don't.

If you started your post with "I believe", or "I think" - trust me, I would not have been sarcastic at all. Not only the people of Portugal, but everyone has the rights to their opinion, as long as it is their opinion. My reaction is because I see your posts as a statement, something like "This is exactly what is happening, people". So I reacted. If this is just your opinion based on nothing but your thoughts, I would not say it that way.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by deltawing

But then what would you like this thread to be about - people who just come out and shoot whatever comes out from their head, without having the slightest clue what they are talking about? ..... And what do we do - we politely waste half an hour to compose a valid response to let them politely and gently know how whatever they are saying is just so far from reality and that they should be not wasting their time, but most of all our time by simply guessing the weather?...

Just pause for a second and think about what he said. I hope you realize how incredibly ridiculous statement that was! Sarcasm comes out when someone calls for it. I really do not want to be sarcastic, please believe me on that. I so much want to take this place and its people seriously. But there are posts that are complete waste of time and space, it is hard to just walk by and say nothing. What is the value of this thread (or others) if this is just an exercise of everybody shooting out whatever crosses their mind, at any time of the day?..... But that said, no worries, there will be no more sarcasm from my end.

"Ridiculous statement" "waste of time" - You are free to think whatever you want just like i´m free to post whatever i think.

Even if I though your post's are ridiculous (something I do not think) and a waste of time I'll spend time reading them because all opinion´s are valid, there are one´s more speculative and other more factual.

I understand your point a view, i´m not angry, to prove it:

I think this whole story around the Nissan LMP1 depends all on the action that D. Panoz put against Nissan Zeod RC Le Mans car.

In my opinion, if Zeod RC cannot race at Le Mans, Nissan LMP1 will not exist. If Zeod run Nissan will advance to the LMP1. After all the talk, if they do not advance will be bad for the image of Nissan.

:-)

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

I think this whole story around the Nissan LMP1 depends all on the action that D. Panoz put against Nissan Zeod RC Le Mans car.

In my opinion, if Zeod RC cannot race at Le Mans, Nissan LMP1 will not exist. If Zeod run Nissan will advance to the LMP1. After all the talk, if they do not advance will be bad for the image of Nissan..

And then I would like to ask you - what makes you think this way?

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by gustavobamba

"Ridiculous statement" "waste of time" - You are free to think whatever you want just like i´m free to post whatever i think.

Even if I though your post's are ridiculous (something I do not think) and a waste of time I'll spend time reading them because all opinion´s are valid, there are one´s more speculative and other more factual.

Gustavo, I would like to make this very clear, so you do not take it the bad way. I saw your post as a statement and as a statement I found it ridiculous. I know you do not see it this way, because something entirely different was going on in your head (intention wise), but all I could see is a statement.

Imagine now I say something like: "Porsche is in deep trouble with their car and they are going to skip the 2014 season" ..... and I just leave it as is.... What happens next? ..... I probably would not make it out of here alive!

But if I put it slightly differently, like: "Hey, I have this bad feeling things are not going too well there and I will not be surprised if they either make some massive changes or they even skip a year" - now I will only get beaten little bit, but I will live to post few more times....

Does that make sense to you?