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Old 2 Feb 2017, 19:16 (Ref:3708823)   #1951
Jonerz
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Jonerz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJonerz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_MkIII

Small capacity turbo motors have had success in endurance sports car racing, and indeed IMSA, and the Daytona 24 Hours in the past. I know it was a different era, but those motors were even more highly boosted than these cars. Of course, this little Mazda is expected to go 24 Hours at darn-near 100% pace, with 100% boost and 600+ horsepower. The Toyota existed in an era when they'd tune down from 1000+ in qualifying, to perhaps 750hp in a sprint race, and perhaps considerably less at Daytona, and not have to push for 24 consecutive hours.

With due respect to Dyson, they weren't in 2009 the team they were in 1999, and I wonder if too much was being asked of car and team. Of course, the isobutanol helped cool the turbos, and keep the motors alive - so perhaps it is a technology issue.

At the same time, Speedsource has yet to have success outside of qualifying in prototype. They were power players in GT, but I'd almost like to see them run one RT-24P and one Mk. 30 Gibson, and see if it is the team or the technology that is the hold up.

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Old 2 Feb 2017, 19:19 (Ref:3708824)   #1952
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Originally Posted by Jonerz View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_MkIII

Small capacity turbo motors have had success in endurance sports car racing, and indeed IMSA, and the Daytona 24 Hours in the past. I know it was a different era, but those motors were even more highly boosted than these cars.
Aero rules back then were free enough to allow that car to suck up air for engine cooling like a whale shark with its mouth gaping open. That's what drove that Toyota 4-cyl engine's ascent to reliability according to MulsanneMike's piece on the car: they managed to get the cooling right.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3708829)   #1953
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
i think the big difference is fuel tank capacity, 106 litres against 75. With more fuel to burn, it was easier to reach the 700 HP mark.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 19:39 (Ref:3708831)   #1954
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Mazda mystifies me.

I don't trust the AER motor ... it has never been a reliable motor---but at the same time, it nearly got the #70 to the podium at Petit and it was strong enough to break its own gearbox at Daytona ... the car ran what, 23:45 before they pulled it?

I am really hoping the cars will do well in the shorter events.

Also ... the chassis would unquestionable fit a V6 ... I wonder if the choice to do the gasoline I4 was based off the decision to do the diesel I4, when someone should have thought a little more widely.

Petit last year proved that the I4 couldn't manage the 5.5 V8 ... the #55 couldn't get around the #10 even it it might have been faster over a lap, given running room. The motor lacked the torque ... just like the early P2/DP contests, better aero couldn't overcome more torque.

Mazda had to know it would always face that disadvantage. Was Mazda just being penny-wise, pound foolish? or did no one step outside the I4 box to consider a wholly new motor?

Re: the Rotary .... Please no. Great motor, but it would make me take up wearing earplugs again.

More seriously, imagine the BoP nightmares .... No one would ever know why the car won, whether the BoP was wrong or the team actually got its stuff together and made it work.

Let's see if IMSA can come up with a fair BoP table and Stick to It for a season, instead of this race-by-race crap ... Then we can consider things like rotaries.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3708833)   #1955
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LOL, Michelin has a slick tire that works in the rain, and Conti doesn't have a rain tire which works in the rain.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 20:00 (Ref:3708839)   #1956
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Thanks! These are always great.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 20:16 (Ref:3708841)   #1957
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Mazda mystifies me.
I have no idea either why they kept the same engine. But it's interesting to look at the sector times. The Mazdas were quite close the Oreca-Gibsons on the straights, but very slow on the twisty bits. What is that all about? The chassis is bad?
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 20:26 (Ref:3708843)   #1958
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I have no idea either why they kept the same engine. But it's interesting to look at the sector times. The Mazdas were quite close the Oreca-Gibsons on the straights, but very slow on the twisty bits. What is that all about? The chassis is bad?
I would have to go back to the Roar and see what they did ... because as I recall they did pretty well at the Roar and sucked at the Rolex.

I had heard they were going to run a conservative strategy to be around at the end of the race ... maybe the figured to run low-downforce, because they could block in the infield and keep up on the banking---opposite of the #90--and that way stay on the lead lap until the final hours?

I thought they had the set-up nailed at the Roar.
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Old 2 Feb 2017, 22:04 (Ref:3708872)   #1959
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The diesel skyactiv was (in racing), but I don't think the 'new' engine has much to do with Mazda anyway. I don't know what is going on with AER, but Kolles was quick to get out and picked up the Nismo V6. I think that says something.
I'm speaking about road cars in general..the whole thing just has not worked all that well IMO.... I was hoping for their diesel here in the US but I don't think it's available, and it's been years since it was introduced. Guess I'm a sucker for marketing schmoo.

In terms of AER, they just don't seem capable of producing a motor with any real reliability while making power at a respectful level.
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Old 3 Feb 2017, 00:18 (Ref:3708892)   #1960
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Hey, your preaching to the choir here! I am a big fan of push-rod engines, they are very light, compact and have a very low centre of gravity compared to over-head cam engines, it pains me that nobody ever put the Katech 7 litre motor into an LMP1 chassis, I feel that Cadillacs efforts have finally shown what a good push-rod engine can do in an LMP type chassis, and believe me I am quite happy about it.

I race with my 11 year old son 5 days of every month, in cadet karts for the past 5 years, we use a Honda GX160 8hp engine, its a push-rod engine, and I just love the simplicity of it, its the most popular form of UK karting, I build, dyno and maintain my own engines, and we are regular podium visitors.

The Gibson engine is nothing special in my opinion, its just a spec race engine built to a budget......but the Mazda motor is quite special, it features a combination of both port fuel injection + side mounted homogeneous direct injection which gives it a good combination of low and high rpm performance, plus good fuel economy, but in my opinion the Mazda capacity is too small, it needs to be in the region of 2.5-3 Litres, and Mazda will hence struggle to hold a candle to Cadillacs big capacity motor due to a substantial torque deficit of 20-30%......same for Gibson, they will have a substantial torque deficit to the Cadillacs due to a lack of capacity......if IMSA they ever apply BoP, I think they will need to impose an rpm limit to the Cadillac, which will effectively reduce the air consumed by the motor to a comparable amount to the Gibson and Mazda, it would be minimal cost and quick to implement, as fuel or air restrictors cost a fortune to implement.
Good stuff knighty, cheers! I didn't bring up the Nissan engine because I don't know enough about it. I've haven't paid a lot of attention to Nissan in quite a while, I'm sorry to say. Can I assume it's just a RB26 with bigger turbos or is it more trick than that?
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Old 3 Feb 2017, 01:57 (Ref:3708904)   #1961
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Or they need more turbocharger boost, which is why turbos or superchargers are used in the first place. They're torque multiplier though forcing more air into the engine than it can normally suck in. But with more boost means more air, and more air means more chance of detonation without upping the amount of fuel burned to cut down on that, or running a huge cooling system, which on these cars can substantially increase drag.

Also, how can boost be increased to boost torque without increasing engine power by an excessive amount?
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Old 3 Feb 2017, 02:06 (Ref:3708905)   #1962
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Good stuff knighty, cheers! I didn't bring up the Nissan engine because I don't know enough about it. I've haven't paid a lot of attention to Nissan in quite a while, I'm sorry to say. Can I assume it's just a RB26 with bigger turbos or is it more trick than that?
VR38DETT.

TT V6.
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Old 3 Feb 2017, 02:13 (Ref:3708907)   #1963
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Also, how can boost be increased to boost torque without increasing engine power by an excessive amount?
They don't restrict cars by a single boost limit anymore, all of the BoP classes have boost tables with a significant drop off at higher RPMs to give them a power curve similar to air restricted NA cars.
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