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Old 18 Aug 2020, 19:23 (Ref:3996279)   #526
Badlands99
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Badlands99 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If I was Stefan Ratel I would keep as far away from anything the ACO are doing as possible!
I know some people criticise Ratel and SRO for all sorts of things - BOP, SC use etc etc ....... but I have to take my hat off to him.
To consistently have the size of grids in Europe over the last five years that they have, just proves that they are doing something right. The old adage of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' springs to mind here! GT3 just works, so please do not change it - evolve it yes, but don't change the basic format.
The conversations with Bentley last year proved a point - 'We don't want a 'works team' really, but if you support 'customer' teams like Audi and Lambo do then BOP might be a bit more favourable ........

Stefan - don't touch the ACO with a barge pole!
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 21:11 (Ref:3996290)   #527
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Originally Posted by Badlands99 View Post
I know some people criticise Ratel and SRO for all sorts of things - BOP, SC use etc etc ....... but I have to take my hat off to him.

...

To consistently have the size of grids in Europe over the last five years that they have, just proves that they are doing something right.
I fully agree that he is doing something right. (and more than just something, too)
But that doesn't mean he is doing everything right, and that I/we can't complain about the things that could be better ...
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 21:31 (Ref:3996304)   #528
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Badlands99 View Post
If I was Stefan Ratel I would keep as far away from anything the ACO are doing as possible!
I know some people criticise Ratel and SRO for all sorts of things - BOP, SC use etc etc ....... but I have to take my hat off to him.
To consistently have the size of grids in Europe over the last five years that they have, just proves that they are doing something right. The old adage of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' springs to mind here! GT3 just works, so please do not change it - evolve it yes, but don't change the basic format.
The conversations with Bentley last year proved a point - 'We don't want a 'works team' really, but if you support 'customer' teams like Audi and Lambo do then BOP might be a bit more favourable ........

Stefan - don't touch the ACO with a barge pole!
Agree with that, he basically kicked out bentley m-sport; but WRT, gpx are actually semi official audi and porsche teams. Not to consider AKKA and other amg teams that basically turn in mercerdes work teams during 24H races
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 22:12 (Ref:3996310)   #529
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tux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
How did he basically kick out Bentley M-Sport? Bentley make no mention of this when deciding not to race this year? They even said they'll be back next year? So?....

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2...urance-racing/
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Old 18 Aug 2020, 22:41 (Ref:3996313)   #530
canaglia
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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How did he basically kick out Bentley M-Sport? Bentley make no mention of this when deciding not to race this year? They even said they'll be back next year? So?....

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2...urance-racing/
last year ratel basically told them that a full backed work team like m-sport doesn't fit well with the gtworld/gt3 spirit... so m-sport retired and this year there is K-Pax that is however a full supported team since there are drivers like soulet, gounon, souceck and parente.
It's a huge gray zone... is ok for a private team to be officially supported by a manufacturer with work engineers and drivers becoming actually a semi/full official tem, it's a no no if a manufacturer directly deploys a full official team.
This kind of situations have always been in ratel championshipd... WRT is from years de facto an audi sport official team, most of all during spa 24H, or over 10 years ago during FIA GT champ vitaphone racing was clearly backed by ferrari/maserati against corvette and saleen teams that barely could get a season budget.
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Old 19 Aug 2020, 12:21 (Ref:3996414)   #531
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I was not a fan of biased GT3 racing at all. After reading of those 5 parts of analisys at dailysportscars my thoughts were cemented completely. So I do not care if they combine into another circus with ACO. Won't be amazed if Alpine wins another "Le Mans" in GT. I realize that colourful cars with famous drivers at the wheel are very attractive for most of the fans. But I'm not addicted to racing - I do not have to watch racing no matter the fact what sort of racing is delivered. Lots of people at this forum were blessed to watch racing in 80's and 90's, so maybe they are full with recollections and ready to watch new type of racing where cars are not the dominant factor. They'll cheer for their favourite team and drivers. I was not so lucky, I've just read articles in 90's. So, I'm not full with normal racing when the car decides and driver is just an arrowhead. I don't fancy of watching "Le Mans" anymore - not because of small grid or predictability. I don't want to waste my time onto scripted play directed by the authorities who completely destroyed a normal hierarchy of sport. BOPed racing is senseless for me.
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Old 19 Aug 2020, 20:40 (Ref:3996542)   #532
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We can't really single out GT3 anymore. It did officially start bop racing, but now almost all of the non-spec classes have become GT3. GTE, GT4, LMH, DPi, TCR, the list goes on, it's all the same. I guess if they didn't differ from each other in looks department we could refer to them all as GT3.
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Old 20 Aug 2020, 07:32 (Ref:3996591)   #533
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We can't really single out GT3 anymore.
I think this format is so popular because manufacturers are afraid of direct comparison. It's marketing fault. I sound paranoiac but for me it's obvious. Advertising used to be more clever and way more classy. Today they are so unconfident with their cars that can not live without BoP. All that nonsense about cost saving is vanished totally by spendings in GT3 alone. I would be surprised if TCR is cheaper than S2000.
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Old 20 Aug 2020, 14:55 (Ref:3996664)   #534
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I think this format is so popular because manufacturers are afraid of direct comparison. It's marketing fault. I sound paranoiac but for me it's obvious. Advertising used to be more clever and way more classy. Today they are so unconfident with their cars that can not live without BoP. All that nonsense about cost saving is vanished totally by spendings in GT3 alone. I would be surprised if TCR is cheaper than S2000.
Three reasons attribute to it

1) Marketing as you presented, as well as coming up with hokey reasonings for cars having these classy tech properties - the best phrase is "technology transfer from road car" - that supposedly helped them to win the competition. These reasons can be anything, like "superior fuel consumption", when no-one mentions the latest adjusted size of the fuel tank and latest adjusted size of fuel flow restrictors. And the sad thing is, you think most people just wouldn't know better when they nod when hearing these claims, but really it seems to me like they don't even care.
2) The easiness of just turning up with whatever and expectation of the series to take care of speeding up and development. Now obviously many manufacturers, Germans especially, still burn money in the oven regardless, and don't really support the cost cutting theory, as you said. But for the most part you can play cheap penny and expect to win (or tell your chassis customers to to expect to win) with zero effort at least once or twice during a season.
3) Every other series/class is also doing it so why would anyone bother with the "dated old world" concept anymore, if the ROI is the same or even better (see reasons 1 and 2). It's the same argument used for pro-am racing, it's hard to go back to what there was once you have over saturated the market. FIA GT3 and FIA GT4 grew relatively slowly in it's first two or three years because no other series in the world, save perhaps Grad-Am and to some extent old FIA GT (although up there the cars at least were originally built for real regulations and were used as such in ACO racing), was really utilizing the same system. But along the way, GTE in 2010-2011 and so on, everyone started adopting the same model. The last few non-spec categories which had retained technical regulations, such as LMP1, finally also had to started to hear lobbyism cries from OEMs wanting to get piece of the pie their way, the only way, and they gave up.

Speaking of which here's the latest series to join the 'fun'. DTM's had handicaps systems in use of course in addition to more spec chassis, but this sounds like officially becoming full bop series now too

https://www.autosport.com/dtm/news/1...or-2021-season

A system of Balance of Performance (BoP) is also expected to be used, despite ITR chairman Gerhard Berger's dislike for the concept. "It's clear that we'll have to extend our technical regulations and it's also obvious that this extension will go in the direction of GT Plus regulations," Berger told Autosport. "To further develop the platform in this direction was our plan even before Audi's withdrawal. -- Audi has previously stated that its customer teams could compete in the DTM following its exit after 2020, should the series adopt cars based on the GT3 formula.

Last edited by Chiana; 20 Aug 2020 at 15:15.
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