[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

We haven't been reaching 18C here at night since May until recently. I call 18C perfect!

I nearly froze at this past Sebring 12 hours in March; it's normally miserably hot considering it's still "winter" where I venture down from.

I'd be willing to bet most December meetings are sparsely attended as there's too much going on with people's personal lives to make a race meeting, especially one so far south.

As Lanky T stated in the other thread, no one will go to lovely Sebring to watch a WEC race unless it was included with the 12 hours - perhaps even more sparsely attended than COTA.

The December issue is one that a series just has to live with if they're going to adopt a winter calendar. The 18-19 calendar takes almost all of November, all of December, all of January and some of February off. For a winter calendar, there isn't many winter races? Has a hell of a gap after Le Mans too. Somehow has a calendar with 1 summer event and no winter events. Could've had Le Mans start and end the season, with the additional Spa slot moved to one of these massive gaps.

The spectator numbers might low for a WEC race, but if all it's going to do is piggyback on an IMSA race, then you doom the series to low numbers should that agreement not be in place. I think Sebring is the right track for WEC, but I don't think it should be riding the coattails of IMSA when it's there, because it'll always be the unwelcome cousin. It is possible to make new classics (see Petit Le Mans), but it won't be done by just saying "hey we're here too! Please stay awake...please?"

[HORNDAWG]

I disagree, I think the (semi)canned attendance is the best scenario for the WEC and the fans. The time frame fits into premium viewing slots across the pond and those at the track hard core enough to hang, for what would be a '24hr event', will do so. While some trackside will catch a good sleep/power nap and wake up to more Sports Car racing. I am having a hard time with the breadth of animus about this, it does seem a rather win-win for almost everyone.






L.P.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I disagree, I think the (semi)canned attendance is the best scenario for the WEC and the fans. The time frame fits into premium viewing slots across the pond and those at the track hard core enough to hang, for what would be a '24hr event', will do so. While some trackside will catch a good sleep/power nap and wake up to more Sports Car racing. I am having a hard time with the breadth of animus about this, it does seem a rather win-win for almost everyone.






L.P.

If you're relying on a crowd from another event to be 'canned' to make up the majority of your attendance, then I think that speaks volumes about your own series. They appear to have no confidence in their own series, or their ability to build a WEC event in America. Which I suppose we could've all guessed anyway, as they've been pretty bad at creating classic events in the calendar. As a long term strategy, it seems unsustainable, although it is a huge step up from COTA.

The Sebring issue isn't the main problem for this calendar anyway. Cutting off the popular events is the big one. The calendar clashes with IMSA is pretty unforgivable too. WEC managed to clash on every available opportunity throughout the IMSA Calendar. That's abysmal.

So yeah, Sebring isn't ideal, but it's the least of the issues with this mess.

[Akrapovic]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...uncements.html

Great article on DSC.

DSC has highlighted something, which they point out is a good thing but also shows quite a negative side.

There were changes made, albeit minor, between the 2pm meeting yesterday with team principals, and the 3:30 media briefing, notably the as yet unannounced/ undecided race dated for February 2019 was changed from january after the intervention of Porsche who pointed out that Daytona’s position on the global calendar should not be encroached upon.

Yes, they are open to changing things. However they missed the glaringly obvious issue of conflicting with Daytona. And the rest of the calendar conflicts with IMSA too. It's great they are willing to change things, but they seem completely unable to see past their own series and plan things thinking they are the be-all and end-all of sportscar racing. It's a relatively small community of teams and drivers that fill these series, so blindly going at your calendar and creating issues is foolish.

WEC needs to be less arrogant with the approach to things and start looking at the industry as a bigger picture. This is just one small example of it.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I'm very surprised that IMSA would agree to a separate event at Sebring. Which event is the true 12 Hours of Sebring? What will ticket prices look like and how is revenue split? Of course there is still quite a bit of time until this event and many details to work out. We don't know what either field will look like yet, so a combined race may still be in the cards.

Originally Posted by carbsmith

To shift the schedule the way they wanted it was going to require one year to be either really empty or really full, and with the way things are in the pro classes having 1.5 seasons in one year definitely wasn't a good idea. For the LMP2 and GTE Am teams there's ELMS and AsLMS races they can be running instead.

Interesting to note the FIM Endurance World Championship starts their new season in two weeks as they've shifted their schedule to end at the Suzuka 8 hours in July.

Originally Posted by S griffin

Who thought of this idea to hold it over two seasons? It's laughable. I can imagine if it was a football season schedule, but two LMs? It just doesn't make sense IMHO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996%E..._Racing_League

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

S365 reporting that the GTE qualifying races are not going to happen either. I imagine that'll go down like a lead brick with the GTE manufacturers.

I was always ambivalent about the idea, but the makes aren't going to be happy indeed.

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Debates my friend, we call them debates here.......

Hey, occasionally they are indeed debates. Occasionally.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I think Sebring is the right track for WEC, but I don't think it should be riding the coattails of IMSA when it's there, because it'll always be the unwelcome cousin. It is possible to make new classics (see Petit Le Mans), but it won't be done by just saying "hey we're here too! Please stay awake...please?"

But isn't that because Sebring is limited on the number of weekends it can run events on the full circuit? Meaning if the WEC wants to race at Sebring it has to join up with someone else. And IMSA is a much better match than anyone else that races there.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yes, they are open to changing things. However they missed the glaringly obvious issue of conflicting with Daytona. And the rest of the calendar conflicts with IMSA too. It's great they are willing to change things, but they seem completely unable to see past their own series and plan things thinking they are the be-all and end-all of sportscar racing. It's a relatively small community of teams and drivers that fill these series, so blindly going at your calendar and creating issues is foolish.

When you say the rest of the season conflicts with IMSA, that's actually only two races: Spa and Fuji.

The WEC has clashes with IMSA every season, and for 2018-9 they have had to make extra efforts not to clash with either F1 or Formula E.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by sceptic

But isn't that because Sebring is limited on the number of weekends it can run events on the full circuit? Meaning if the WEC wants to race at Sebring it has to join up with someone else. And IMSA is a much better match than anyone else that races there.

Yeah, that's a fair point, but there are better ways to integrate it than this. Friday race, 6 hour race, etc. Just shoving it on the end is like saying "Look! We have the Sebring 12 hours!". Meanwhile IMSA is replying to comments on Facebook saying "We all know which one is the real 12 hours of Sebring". hm!

When you say the rest of the season conflicts with IMSA, that's actually only two races: Spa and Fuji.

The WEC has clashes with IMSA every season, and for 2018-9 they have had to make extra efforts not to clash with either F1 or Formula E.

Also Detroit and the LM Test day still. Whilst WEC does clash every season, it does take considerable effort to make every single regular season event you run a conflict. They almost clashed with Daytona for goodness sake - only the teams pointing this out got the WEC TBC race moved from January to February. And the clash at the end of the season is Petit Le Mans, not a regular race.

When you have teams pointing out that Daytona is a big deal, and the ACO basically saying "sorry, we didn't notice, we'll move that" it doesn't look good. One clash, fine. Two clashes...ok. But every opportunity? Well that's just poor.

[FLGTFAN]

Originally Posted by sceptic

But isn't that because Sebring is limited on the number of weekends it can run events on the full circuit?

No.

Originally Posted by sceptic

Meaning if the WEC wants to race at Sebring it has to join up with someone else.

No.

Originally Posted by sceptic

And IMSA is a much better match than anyone else that races there.

It's not about who races there. It's about the event - just like the LM24.

[TF110]

The manufacturers were approached about GTE qualifying races and the dropping of the idea doesn't look negative when you read the quotes, it doesn't sound like it's a big loss. It'll give them exposure, but it costs more money and potentially an entry into the race if they crash. Plus it's not even been completely ruled out.

On the clashes, it's a tough thing to manage. This is an FIA series so they have to try and make it so they don't clash with F1 and FE. IMSA put the Detroit race on their date but it's usually been custom to have the LM test day 2 weeks before the big race. How is that the wec's fault?

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by TF110

On the clashes, it's a tough thing to manage. This is an FIA series so they have to try and make it so they don't clash with F1 and FE. IMSA put the Detroit race on their date but it's usually been custom to have the LM test day 2 weeks before the big race. How is that the wec's fault?

That‘s not completely accurate. Detroit and Long Beach are IndyCar races in which IMSA is just a support series — IndyCar is the one that (mainly) sets/negotiates the date. IMSA’s options are either to accept the date or not, and not means not racing there. IMSA thinks it has to be at Belle Isle. And yes, the LM test day conflict often comes with that.

Belle Isle is up for renewal after next year — whether the race continues at all depends upon whether it can get a new environmental permit from the state of Michigan.

[Coach Ep]

WEC should have gone for a mix of the old ILMC + separate world championship races in places where there's no blue riband sportscar event. Dropping Silverstone and Nurburgring + cloning the Sebring 12H is certainly not the way to win (back) fans.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Did some thinking about this today. If the ACO were trying to create a new event race in the US I think you have to start with thinking about where car people are going to be doing car people things.

Anyone who has bothered to listen to me talk about sports cars over the years knows that Laguna Seca is my favorite circuit in the US. Isn't it every year in late August that is Monterey Car Week? Now it's obviously not going to happen now with the winter schedule they have proposed, but in hindsight wouldn't it have made sense to have piggy backed off an event like this? You could have created a new event that was already an event in itself. At the same time you'd also be creating your own racing event as part of it that was not associated with any other series.

Again, just some thoughts in hindsight.

[chernaudi]

Fact is that the ACO needed to swallow their pride and run Grade 2 tracks in the US. COTA's not getting the job done, Indy doesn't seem to be popular, and Mexico City and Montreal aren't on the radar.

The Sebring deal is weird, but it's better than COTA and the midnight Saturday to noon Sunday will suit the European TV crowd.

[mariantic]

So, I buy one of those nice Ginetta LMP1s for 2018.

I get a test day then I can race it twice.

Then 3 months off, some on a boat to Japan.

I get two more races, then the car is in China with another 3 months off during which WEC will transport it to TBC and on to Sebring.

Then in May back in Europe, a clean down and ready to do it all again...

Not sure I'd find this a compelling programme. Shame, because until now I've seen privateer LMP1 as the future.

Not sure I see a future at all now.

Mariantic

[S griffin]

At least it seems they are trying to get a new formula in place to get it more sustainable, so hopefully that'll work come 2020

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by mariantic

So, I buy one of those nice Ginetta LMP1s for 2018.

I get a test day then I can race it twice.

Then 3 months off, some on a boat to Japan.

I get two more races, then the car is in China with another 3 months off during which WEC will transport it to TBC and on to Sebring.

Then in May back in Europe, a clean down and ready to do it all again...

Not sure I'd find this a compelling programme. Shame, because until now I've seen privateer LMP1 as the future.

Not sure I see a future at all now.

Mariantic

I think your wallet would find something to like about it though

There has to be a transition year, and with costs already a major issue going the cheaper and more sparse route is the better option.

[Alex Langheck]

Was out watching rallying yesterday so have only caught up with the news. Hmm...

Do the ACO know what they're doing? Dropping 2 of the bigger spectator events?

Right, we all know the WEC is struggling, so costs have to be cut - that's fine, and so action has to be taken to keep the 'World' status; but this is the best they can come up with?

I don't really understand the 'Winter' calendar, when it actually isn't a proper winter series.
Just have 6 races; Spa, Le Mans, Nurburgring, Silverstone, plus a US round and Fuji....job done. Four races in the European heartland, plus an Asian race, and an a Americas race to give you 3 continents.
Sebring makes no sense unless it's the proper/ official 12 Hours of Sebring; and that's not feasible.

I've said before; the ACO may run Le Mans, but they can't run/ promote a World series - and they prove this time & again.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I think your wallet would find something to like about it though

There has to be a transition year, and with costs already a major issue going the cheaper and more sparse route is the better option.

I certainly don't see what is proposed being cheaper. In fact I can see serious cash flow problems for teams

[Salamus]

The FIA/ACO had six years to create a stable championship. Six years to build a proper foundation and a sustainable structure that didn't need to rely on manufacturers. Every new championship needs stability and especially more so for a world championship. But that never happened. We all knew that if the manufacturers left, this championship would be in serious trouble because they have nothing else to fall back on. And it has actually happened. Privateer P1 may save this championship or it might be a classic case of too little too late.

Originally Posted by mariantic

So, I buy one of those nice Ginetta LMP1s for 2018.

I get a test day then I can race it twice.

Then 3 months off, some on a boat to Japan.

I get two more races, then the car is in China with another 3 months off during which WEC will transport it to TBC and on to Sebring.

Then in May back in Europe, a clean down and ready to do it all again...

Not sure I'd find this a compelling programme. Shame, because until now I've seen privateer LMP1 as the future.

Not sure I see a future at all now.

Mariantic

If the privateer P1s prove to be reliable, your car has a shot at winning Le Mans overall. That's pretty compelling I think. And most/all P1 teams should continue after Le Mans just to get more experience with the cars in preparation for Le Mans 2019. Le Mans 2018 might only have 4 or 5 P1 entries but that number will surely increase in 2019, especially if Toyota don't return.

However, if all the privateer P1s fail to finish at Le Mans 2018 and no real improvement is shown by Sebring 2019, it's better to just go with a P2 for Le Mans 2019, especially if Toyota don't return. At that point, the ACO is in a hole. Keep P1 and hope it gets better/hope the manufacturers return or just scrap it and rely on P2? It's a messy situation.

[MagVanisher]

As much as ACO tries to promote privateer LMP1 teams to get a shot of winning Le Mans, we all know that they want some manufacturer money when competing in the top class!

Seriously, I feel that GTE-Pro is the playground for prestigious marques for now, and I have no faith on those privateers winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Why not ACO just include the likes of DPi and GT500 classes instead of sticking to their own rules.

[Purist]

MV, LMP1 was THEIR IDEA, and DPI and GT500 aren't.

Salamus, I really don't see how you have a commercially-viable World Championship without those name-brand manufacturers.

And I'm just going to head something else off before it's mentioned. There are already too many GT-only series out there, so how would a GTE WEC stand out enough, especially when 2/3rds of the calendar is on modern, Grade 1 circuits? (I could be generous and say only 50%, since Spa is still MUCH better than any of the new builds or remodels of old circuits.) Yes, there still is LMP2, but those cars have other options, and without P1, the works teams are in GT.

If it comes to that, just take over the Intercontinental GT Challenge and add Le Mans to their schedule.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Purist

Salamus, I really don't see how you have a commercially-viable World Championship without those name-brand manufacturers.

You definitely need manufacturers to promote the championship. But you also need a strong privateer field to fall back on when times get tough (ie: now). Manufacturers grow a series, privateers keep it afloat. FIA/ACO relied solely on the manufacturers in their top class. They were constantly talking to them and getting their feedback for the new regulations and the manufacturers still left. As a side note, this exact same scenario can happen in GTE. All it takes is for a couple manufacturers to abandon the class and it goes into crisis mode as well.

What makes DPi and GT3 appealing and safe is that you have a good mix of both manufacturer-supported teams and small independent teams. I'm not suggesting the WEC go to DPi, but the FIA/ACO can certainly learn from IMSA and SRO.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Purist

MV, LMP1 was THEIR IDEA, and DPI and GT500 aren't.

Yeah, LMP1 was ACO's idea but it would be nice if they include other classes like DPi and GT500. But as of now, it's all just a pipe dream 'cause ACO won't listen to us fans.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Yeah, LMP1 was ACO's idea but it would be nice if they include other classes like DPi and GT500. But as of now, it's all just a pipe dream 'cause ACO won't listen to us fans.

But I'm a fan. I don't want DPi as the top class at Le Mans (but would like an IMSA invitational class), because I don't want the overall winner to be determined by whoever plays the BoP Game the best - see N24 and almost Spa 24 2016.

[MagVanisher]

You mean whoever pays to have their machines win races, right? Well, I want DPi to be included minus the manufacturers meddling into manipulating the BoP in their favor.

Heck, a success ballast would be nice for that class if implemented correctly.