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Old 22 Sep 2008, 12:27 (Ref:2295186)   #31
275 GTB-4
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Guilty!

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Originally Posted by MPA
275 GTB-4, when I said "Small" Driver error, I was not talking about the nominal seated height of the carbon based ballast................

But you knew that
Yeah...I did...couldn't resist
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 21:53 (Ref:2295677)   #32
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whoopsy
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 08:33 (Ref:2296703)   #33
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DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Big_Trev
Air filled tyres adsorb impact (i.e. nothing in them), earth (dirt) filled tyres do not absorb impact - simple really.
I couldn't agree more! This is something I have argued for years, earth filled tyre walls are bloody dangerous, empty tyre walls are just about the best thing to hit.

I'm an example, last year i hit a wall of empty tyres side-on at 150km/h. I walked away and the car cost about $3500 to repair.

This year i hit an earth filled tyre wall on the same track at 90km/h at a 45 degree angle. I fractured my arm and injured my cocxyx (sp.) and the repair bill is going to be about $5500 - $6000.
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Old 24 Sep 2008, 11:25 (Ref:2296819)   #34
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ouch!! hope you are fully recovered David.

(coccyx)
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 00:00 (Ref:2297357)   #35
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I agree with everyone here who have said that Air Filled Tyres are far better.. Earth Filled tyres, make the impact harder than what it should be because the energy has now-where to escape to, reducing the severity of the accident..

I have always doubted PI to be a safe race track.. Having been there, I call it as a very dangerous one at that, because you have nothing but water or sand if you make a mistake. To say one certain dev driver almost ended up in the drink at the end of turn 1 is a bit of a farce, but when things almost happen like that you question the safety of the circuit.

AJ's damage bill could have been almost certainly cut in half, if there had been air filled tyres.

End of story... PI isnt safe for ANYTHING unless they make some changes..
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 00:18 (Ref:2297367)   #36
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Originally Posted by Fernandez_Angel
I call it as a very dangerous one at that, because you have nothing but water or sand if you make a mistake. To say one certain dev driver almost ended up in the drink at the end of turn 1 is a bit of a farce, but when things almost happen like that you question the safety of the circuit.

End of story... PI isnt safe for ANYTHING unless they make some changes..
Water or sand?? where?? Are you sure your talking about the same PI track as everyone else, because I swear the only time you've got any chance in ending up in the drink, is if it's been raining heavily, like that infamous Superbike round. And there's only PI mud and kitty litter around the edges.

I'm not having a go at you, but fair effort if anyone ever ended up in drink or sand down there. I must say it would be a fair effort for anyone to fall off at turn 1 and end up in the drink, as they would have to clear the grave trap that's now down there, the other side of circuit, maybe another gravel trap, one of the infamous tyre walls that surround the circuit, spectator area, tree's and then a cliff face. Almost half a kilometre of distances and more obstacles than a scene out of the Simpsons of Homer falling down a cliff face.

Parts of that track are a damn site safer than they where about 8-10 years ago when they started to make some changes down there.

But to what extent do they need to butcher up the place to meet a so call appropriate level of 'safe'.
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 02:23 (Ref:2297403)   #37
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2004 Australian Superbike Championship (same weekend as the Sandown 500 in fact).

Small drainage problem and a week of rain caused this mid way through Saturday afternoon.



But I don't think this is the water he was talking about.
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 03:18 (Ref:2297408)   #38
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There's that weekend, and there was the World Superbike Round I think the year or before. I remember sitting down in front of the the old Foxtel and at the start of the telecast the commentator goes "no folks, that's not St.Andrew Scotland, but Phillip Island Australia!"

The only other drink in the place is the dam within the infield, which once again any chance of landing in it carriers a degree of difficulty higher than any current scale. Same goes for that little pond between turns 3 and 6, if it's still there.

Unless Fernandez_Angel is talking about $8 can's of drink they expect you buy down there......
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 03:39 (Ref:2297412)   #39
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Didn't Moffat go close to landing in a dam back in the day?

The dam between 3 and 6 is still there..
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 08:41 (Ref:2297485)   #40
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I believe he did end up in it, so says the story about the crash anyway.

By the way the water was around 1 metre deep up against the tyre wall.

It was caused by earth works which allowed dirt to wash down and block the drains under the track and the water had to go somewhere as almost all the land along the front straight and infield drains through that drainage point to the dam between 3 & 6 and then over the cliff into Bass Strait.

They stopped qualifying when the water crossed the white line at the edge of the circuit.

Took several pumps and lots of shovel work to sort it all out.
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Old 26 Sep 2008, 10:36 (Ref:2298251)   #41
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Last time I looked the dam between 3 and 6 was slowly being filled in.

And the fence on the outside of turn 3 is armco, behind a mile of gravel trap.

And the dam at the outside of turn 8, gone years ago, wall pushed back and flagpoint moved.

I'd like to know which certain driver almost ended up in the drink. Although it would be possible to reach the tyre wall near FP 2.6 if the throttle stuck open and the brakes and brain failed coming into turn one. Perhaps a 1 in a 500,000 chance....you can argue the odds if you wish.

Seriously, when was the last time some of you looked at the place? Yes, there's still earth filled tyre walls but there's also many air filled and belted tyre walls as well.

Could the owners do more? Yes. Without doubt they could. But they have never stopped improving the place either.
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Old 5 Oct 2008, 09:06 (Ref:2304548)   #42
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I hit an air filled tyre barrier at the Hayshed at in 2003 in a sidecar race. We left the track at about 150 and backed into the tyres. I broke my back and my passenger broke his leg. Both of us have since recovered. I would hate to think what a concrete barrier would have done to us.

I hope in trying to make it "safe" for cars they dont make it dangerous for bikes.

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Old 5 Oct 2008, 11:09 (Ref:2304597)   #43
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sailed..

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Originally Posted by Jeff 8
I hit an air filled tyre barrier at the Hayshed at in 2003 in a sidecar race. We left the track at about 150 and backed into the tyres. I broke my back and my passenger broke his leg. Both of us have since recovered. I would hate to think what a concrete barrier would have done to us.

I hope in trying to make it "safe" for cars they dont make it dangerous for bikes.

Jeff
Good to hear you are OK Jeff...its the perennial argument...to make any circuit safe for bikes/chairs...they need to do extra...maybe air fences...whatever...its all about money I suppose
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Old 5 Oct 2008, 21:21 (Ref:2304985)   #44
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Originally Posted by Jeff 8
I hit an air filled tyre barrier at the Hayshed at in 2003 in a sidecar race.
MA has different rules concerning run offs mainly because bikes behave differently to cars when they leave the circuit and even side cars behave differently to normal 2 wheeled bikes (I've worked at many car & bike events at most circuits in Victoria and attended many serious and not so serious crashes in my 20+ years in the sport).

In any form of racing if a wall is in a position where it is likely to be hit "Head on" it will have a suplimentary form of protection being either tyre bundles or in the case of motorcycle events an air fence to help cushion some of the impact.

In my original post when I started this thread I was referring to the use of earth filled tyre walls as the main protection to keep the competing vehicles away from spectators and marshals.

I'm not sure of the exact where abouts at the Hayshed you had your off Jeff (on the left before or on the right side before or after) but your post suggests it wasn't a glancing blow collision but for both cars & bikes in a glancing blow a solid wall is better than tyres which grab the vehicle and can throw it anywhere as opposed to sliding along the wall to a stop.

I still stand by my original post statement that concrete walls are safer than earth filled tyres but do agree that in certain areas there MUST be additional protection where a head on or severe angle rather than glancing blow collision can occur.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 05:02 (Ref:2311839)   #45
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I was, unfortunately, prophetic in my crticism of the Bathurst organisers failure to do anything about the section of race track where the tragic death of Mark Porter occurred in 2006. Perhaps now something will be done. The wall should be moved back and run off area of some sort put in.
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