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Old 20 Jun 2005, 08:25 (Ref:1334197)   #1
NJDMONEY
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Could a chicane have been built safely?

Given the layout of IMS, the narrow straight on the run to turn 13, could a tire chicane have been safely built to avoid cars spearing into a wall at over 100 mph?

Keep in mind there's a wall seperating the oval warmup lane with the race track, so the chicane would have had to be very early on the exit of turn 12, which may have made it pointless as to not reducing speeds enough going into turn 13. I assume the chicane would have to be a turn down towards the infield and then back up, because the other way would be the dangerous position I mentioned earlier of cars spearing into the wall.

I think I may have just answered my own question but perhaps there's some marshals out there who are better familiarized with FIA spec track layout.

And just to fit in with everything else: 100% Michelin's fault. The "race" was run, how can you expect to get a refund?
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 08:36 (Ref:1334202)   #2
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given a bit thought it could have easilly been done.

heck these guys are professional drivers if they cant work out what speed they need to do safely through a section of track then well they deserve to hit a wall at 100mph.

Spain 94 wasnt a problem (mind you there was no wall near by) and from what i remeber only 1 or 2 had a problem there during practice/qualifying and no one during the race.

this isnt rocket science no matter what anyone says , throw all the technical numbers , wind velocity , angle of the sun and how uncle tom cobbler wears his hat at me you like , if your a driver you drive the track , chuck some tires on it to make a new chicane and then you drive accordingly to that track.

simple really isnt it
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 08:42 (Ref:1334205)   #3
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Hmm..why not we'd have Michelins design all F1-tracks next season since they're so interested?

This way, it would suit their tyres perfectly.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 08:48 (Ref:1334211)   #4
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One would have thought a profession tyre company with over 100,000 klm in testing in the last 6 months could construct a tyre as well, so I'm not that confident a chicane could be made in 30 minutes.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 08:55 (Ref:1334214)   #5
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hehehehe , awe come on Wrex , couple of witches hats here and hay bayle there , she'd be right mate.

Im over the shock now I think its actually funny
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:06 (Ref:1334218)   #6
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Originally Posted by Wrex
One would have thought a profession tyre company with over 100,000 klm in testing in the last 6 months could construct a tyre as well, so I'm not that confident a chicane could be made in 30 minutes.
Thats only half the issue though. BS have unlimited testing at the moment and the benefit of having feedback of the extra wear caused by the diamond cut on the track due to their sister company; Firestone.

So, Mich were caught out and unless some of the lateral loading was removed by the addition of a chicane, then they couldn't race.

Could it have been built? Yes.

Should it have been built? Well, thats the real question.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:16 (Ref:1334224)   #7
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IronLion should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i guess we can could'a should'a would'a all day.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:22 (Ref:1334230)   #8
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i guess we can could'a should'a would'a all day.
Yep. Thats why this is a forum, not a press statement.

Talking of which. The Mich teams got together and got a press release out before the end of the race. The arrogance of the FIA allows them to not bother releasing one as yet.

Great direction from the "so called" governing body
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:36 (Ref:1334247)   #9
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Putting up a chicane would have been the wrong decision.

Lets say a team had a problem with break wear, and asked for a hairpin to be bypassed so there was one less big stop, would anyone agree to that?
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:36 (Ref:1334248)   #10
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scorch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A couple of points come to mind over a chicane,
1. The drivers will need a free practice to work out racing lines, they are supposed to be good drivers so only 15 minutes will do.
2. Ferarri will protest if anybody else wins.
3. what happens if the tyres are hastely assembled and somone hits them and is injured, there must be some comback on the FIA over that.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:43 (Ref:1334259)   #11
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I don't know what would have been the best decision. Strictly speeking, events as they unfolded were to the letter of the law.

Mich brought unsuitable tyres and the teams couldn't race. End of story at least legally.

Yet another example of F1 being a business and not a sport for the fans and just goes to show that a fundemental step-change needs to happento high end motorsport.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 09:58 (Ref:1334278)   #12
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by knock-on

Yet another example of F1 being a business and not a sport for the fans and just goes to show that a fundemental step-change needs to happento high end motorsport.

But applying the rules properly, as happened yesterday, is actually sport at its purest.
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 10:01 (Ref:1334282)   #13
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I was totally against about putting a chicane.
It is not fair and in the future this could have been used to make rules and track modifications at every race.
Even if I didn't like the fact to race with 6 cars, I still think this was the only way to race legally.
It was a Michelin problem, expecially because the rules say that a tyre constructor MUST take to the GP 2 different kind of tyres.
1 that is the best compromise between the kind of circuit, forecasts, speed, ecc..
1 that MUST allow all the cars supplied to take part of the race.
This is the very bad part of the story and the one I do not understand at all.
In fact you can take a wrong tyre, but why they didn't take a "sure" one??
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 10:27 (Ref:1334309)   #14
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Taken from the comments at the end of the race (at grandprix.com)

Q: (Joe Saward - F1 Grand Prix Special) Can I ask all three of you, if your tyre manufacturer said to you that your tire couldn't make it more than ten laps, would you race?

Schumacher: No, there's no point.

Monteiro: No, you can't take the risk and probably anyway your team owners wouldn't let you race anyway. It's a big responsibility.

Barrichello: There was only one solution. If the problem was on 13, just come into the pits every lap.

Schumacher: Yeah.

Barrichello: And then they would finish seventh and eighth.

Schumacher: Honestly I understood from talking to one of the drivers that despite turn 13, they would have had the problem anyway, with chicane or without chicane.

Q: (Dieter Rencken - The Citizen) Michael, as chairman of the GPDA, could you tell me where the organization stands on this matter and where its responsibilities start and stop in terms of this sort of dangerous situation?

Schumacher: We're sort of more looking into circuit safety. In this kind of situation, put it this way, there are certain drivers that don't have the power to take decisions, so there is no point in forcing somebody or trying something. It's not the region we would consider to talk about. We have regions where it concerns all of us where we quite clearly don't have any competition influence when we can get active and when we do get active.

Q: (Bruce Martin - National Speedsport News) If the future of this event can be saved, do you see that there needs to be a permanent modification of this racecourse?

Schumacher: We have been here now how many years? Six. And we have now this problem? I'm pretty sure everybody will be much better prepared next year. So I don't see any reason why the circuit should be changed. We can adapt everything to fit the circuit.


Two big points there...
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Old 20 Jun 2005, 10:45 (Ref:1334324)   #15
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Re: Could a chicane have been built safely?

I'm sure a chicane could have been built. I know there are issues about making it safe, putting it in the right place, getting an FIA track inspection to verify it, etc. etc.
But, let's talk hypothetically, if Michelin had supplied a control tyre, and no teams could have raced without a chicane. Would the FIA have found a way to add a chicane? They'd probably have added a free practice session to get used to the changes, and other careful thought, but I'm sure it would have happened. If it would have possible in those facts, surely it would have been possible in the actual circumstances.
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