Outing your name - The discussion (and other assorted bits)

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I think we are at a space where general consensus is that those who stay behind a nom de plume are taken less seriously than those who out themselves

But how do we know if it's their real name or not? If I changed my handle to Richard Roe, would that make my opinions more real? Even though my real name is nothing like that? An ensign by any other name would still be as whatever-you-think-of-the-opinion...

[simon drabble]

as you know historic racing is a pretty small world - I reckon most of us at least know of each other....
If Jermey Hall is happy to stand up and be counted then I do not take seriously anyone saying that they are too important to be quoted directly....

[Jeremy Hall]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

as you know historic racing is a pretty small world - I reckon most of us at least know of each other....
If Jermey Hall is happy to stand up and be counted then I do not take seriously anyone saying that they are too important to be quoted directly....

Jermey indeed Simon, but I have to tell you that on other sites I hide behind a pseudonym because there are those within the corridors in which I sometimes move that do not like some the things I say and regularly try to get me -I can't think of a better word than-sacked.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I think we are at a space where general consensus is that those who stay behind a nom de plume are taken less seriously than those who out themselves

Can tell you work in Finance, Simon, that "space" word gives it away!!! Where did it ever come from, its certainly the phrase of the moment isn't it.

[simon drabble]

Haha no I am far too much of a jubbo to speak in management speak!! I was just quoting 275 long nose!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

If there was a post by "AN OTHER" which said that a particular driver had retired from a race because of certain bodily function problems then I might not believe them. However if it came from a known source rather than some unknown one then I might be more inclined to believe.

I have to agree with Roger Wills on this one "It is a credibility issue".

Here is a man, a well respected man, people believed every word he said!!!!!!!!!!

Madoff's arrest in billion-dollar fraud case shocks Palm Beach investors

By JANE MUSGRAVE

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Friday, December 12, 2008

Bernard Madoff didn't accept money from just anyone. Clients ideally had to have at least $10 million to open an account with his New York investment firm.

While such wealthy people don't turn up just anywhere, the Palm Beach Country Club provided enough to make Madoff's membership in the predominantly Jewish club worthwhile.
Bernard Madoff scandal
The veteran Wall Street money manager, a part-time Palm Beacher, is accused of duping a long list of investors in a huge Ponzi scheme.
See related stories

Have you been affected by the alleged Ponzi scheme by Wall Street money manager Bernard Madoff? Contact Business reporter Jeff Ostrowski at (561) 820-4581 or email jeff_ostrowski@pbpost.com

On Friday, many of those who had considered themselves lucky to invest their millions with the part-time Palm Beacher were calling their accountants, their brokers and each other, wondering whether they had lost it all.

"Everyone is in shock," said Richard Rampell, a Palm Beach accountant. "They're embarrassed. They don't want to believe they got taken."

But, according to federal investigators, that's exactly what happened.

"It's all just one big lie ... basically a giant Ponzi scheme," Madoff told senior employees this week, according to documents filed in U.S. District Court in New York City.

The feds swooped in quickly and arrested the 70-year-old, who splits his time between a Manhattan apartment and a $9.3 million mansion on the Intracoastal Waterway just north of Flagler Memorial Bridge. The five-bedroom, seven-bath Palm Beach property once belonged to Herbert and Hilary Pulitzer.

After he told the employees that he had lost $50 billion invested with him, investigators were afraid he would carry through with plans to give the $200 million to $300 million that remained to favored employees, family and friends, according to court documents.

The $50 billion loss, if accurate, would be one of the biggest frauds in history. By comparison, when energy trading giant Enron filed for bankruptcy in 2001, it had $63.4 billion in assets.

Madoff late Thursday was charged with one count of securities fraud. He was released after posting a $10 million bond secured by his New York City apartment.

His attorney, Daniel Horwitz, spoke of the contributions the founder of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities has made during his decades-long career as a Wall Street powerhouse, including a stint as chairman of the Nasdaq exchange he helped found.

"Bernard Madoff is a long-standing leader in the financial services industry," he said. "We will fight to get through this unfortunate set of events."

Calling the events "unfortunate" doesn't begin to describe the possible fallout, said Rampell and others.

Not only would individuals lose millions if Madoff used their money to pay off other clients instead of investing it, but some of his clients were local charities, Rampell said, although he declined to name them.

In addition, the types of people who invested with Madoff are those that the already strained nonprofits typically turn to for donations in tough economic times.

Madoff also handled hedge funds, including Fairfield Greenwich Advisors LLC and Tremont Capital Management, according to published reports.

"He had a very stellar reputation," Norman Braman, CEO of Braman Motors, told The Miami Herald. "I read this morning about Arthur Levitt, former head of the SEC, praising him. That's how you select people - by reputation."

Braman, whose company has operations in Miami, West Palm Beach and Denver, said Friday he was one of Madoff's clients.

Investing with Madoff also was attractive because the returns were so high, Rampell said. Even in recent years, when other securities tanked, returns were as high as 11 percent to 15 percent, he said.

When one client asked him whether it was safe, Rampell said he tried to figure out how Madoff made money. Because the monthly statements he sent clients were hundreds of pages long, Rampell assumed Madoff was a day trader.

Demurring that his technique was a secret, Madoff offered only this explanation: "I can make money when the market goes up. I can make money when the market goes down. But I can't make money when the market stays flat."

Ultimately, Rampell said, he told the client: "I don't know what to tell you other than the guy has a good track record."

Given the events of the past week, he said, he has doubts about the truth of the statements Madoff sent clients as well as the annual audits Madoff sent to the Securities and Exchange Commission.

If the federal allegations are true, the surprise is that Madoff was able to sustain such a fraud for so long, Rampell said. Court documents show that it dates back to at least 2005.

It fell apart when wary investors demanded $7 billion back and he didn't have the money to cover it, Madoff told investigators.

"There is no innocent explanation," Madoff told FBI agents, according to court documents. He told the agents he "paid investors with money that wasn't there," that he was "broke" and that he expected to go to jail.

The only bright spot for investors is that they may be able to get tax refunds if the investment returns were bogus, Rampell said. But, he acknowledged, that would be little compensation, either financially or psychologically, for those who knew him at the country club.

While the club, which was formed in 1959 by Jewish Palm Beachers who were banned from other island haunts, proved to be an important connection for Madoff, fellow members described him as aloof.

Others wanted to talk money; he wanted to golf. Or maybe it was something else, Rampell suggested.

"Maybe it was all part of his mystique," he said.

The Wall Street Journal and The Miami Herald contributed to this story.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Personally, whilst I prefer to know exactly who I'm dealing with as my very first post said, I value both, since it is surely what the poster says rather than who says it that determines whether it is a valid, sensible, logical, or constructive view. You can usually tell whether some one has an axe to grind or a distorted/biased view by the nature of the post rather than who posted it. The only difference is that if you know who posted it, you might understand better why they have posted it.

Hallelujah!!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

as you know historic racing is a pretty small world - I reckon most of us at least know of each other....
If Jermey Hall is happy to stand up and be counted then I do not take seriously anyone saying that they are too important to be quoted directly....

Simon...do realise that the internet goes over the white cliffs of dover?? to even...wait for it...those other antipodean parts!! Guess what? there are people who actually know you in other countrys and there are others who don't know you from Adam!! Do you undermean what I stand to say

[kelvin88]

Like the Madoff example. If he had used a fake name and not told anyone who he was, he probably wouldn't have got the money!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Haha no I am far too much of a jubbo to speak in management speak!! I was just quoting 275 long nose!

Ohhhhh you really know how to hurt....short nose or long...two cam or four...hmmmm...nope, both Ferrari are one of the most beautiful cars ever created! (if any one wants to crate one up for me...I will gladly sign for it! )

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Simon...do realise that the internet goes over the white cliffs of dover?? to even...wait for it...those other antipodean parts!! Guess what? there are people who actually know you in other countrys and there are others who don't know you from Adam!! Do you undermean what I stand to say

all serious historic racers in UK and US know who of Jeremy Hall. As for the long nose - aren't they the most desirable?!

[john ruston]

Understand the short noses are the better looking.Into this rivet counting/anorak culture!

[Al Weyman]

That Mandoff story, what makes me wonder on these type of people is that they are presumably religious (Jewish in this case) so how can their religion justify ripping so many people off I am not religous but have a stong conciencous and could not sleep at night if I ripped people off. I was in a police station not so long ago (I have just been ripped off for a largish sum and was trying to get the Police to see it as fraud) and there was pictures of shoplifters caught on camera and at least three where wearing the Hijab, whats that all about?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

That Mandoff story, what makes me wonder on these type of people is that they are presumably religious (Jewish in this case) so how can their religion justify ripping so many people off I am not religous but have a stong conciencous and could not sleep at night if I ripped people off. I was in a police station not so long ago (I have just been ripped off for a largish sum and was trying to get the Police to see it as fraud) and there was pictures of shoplifters caught on camera and at least three where wearing the Hijab, whats that all about?

Al ...stop and smell the coffee...them take a large swig of good Scottish stuff..,people are people!! are ya with me

[simon drabble]

The Madoff Fraud was incredible - anyone who placed funds with him should lose their investment licence as even the most rudimentary due diligence would see the flaws. Nicola Horlick should wind her fund up now.....

[john ruston]

I happened to be in West Palm the day the story broke.A very interesting day with lots of people getting very ,very agitated.At 9 am they ruled the world and by noon the world owned them.

Another assorted point!

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Al ...stop and smell the coffee...them take a large swig of good Scottish stuff..,people are people!! are ya with me

But I bet they all think their God loves them and they can make up something in their mind to justify it (maybe like Maxwell the pension plunderer and support the homeland) and their path to heaven is clear.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

... and their path to heaven is clear.

Yet another advert for the Spa 6 hours?

[terence]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Yet another advert for the Spa 6 hours?

But of course ma boi!.