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Old 1 May 2005, 13:50 (Ref:1291080)   #26
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Eurosport Live?

They have a cheek don't they?

You cant fool me Eurosport...
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Old 1 May 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1291083)   #27
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Eurosport Live?

They have a cheek don't they?

You cant fool me Eurosport...
At least they flashed a "highlights" sign earlier, something they didn't do earlier today when they pretended warm-up was live (funny that I read about the crash that ended it something like 10-15 minutes before it was even shown "live" on Eurosport...).

On the plus side the gap between the two races should be minimal now.
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Old 1 May 2005, 14:39 (Ref:1291102)   #28
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Hmm, interesting 2nd race, another good result for Priaulx. I think he can go into Silverstone nice and happy, will be interesting to see what happens regarding Dirk Muller, I just have to wonder what did happen after he crossed the line in race 2.
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Old 1 May 2005, 14:41 (Ref:1291103)   #29
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Not sure - looks as though Andy P may have tagged the back of Dirk as they crossed the line, Dirk spun and ended up clouting the side of Farfus (I think). Best action in the whole race if you ask me
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Old 1 May 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1291108)   #30
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Originally Posted by cos
Not sure - looks as though Andy P may have tagged the back of Dirk as they crossed the line, Dirk spun and ended up clouting the side of Farfus (I think).
That's my take on it as well.
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Old 1 May 2005, 15:17 (Ref:1291114)   #31
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On the plus side the gap between the two races should be minimal now.
Indeed, I prefer todays broadcasting with a small gap.

Nice 2nd race.
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Old 1 May 2005, 16:21 (Ref:1291129)   #32
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Originally Posted by cos
Not sure - looks as though Andy P may have tagged the back of Dirk as they crossed the line, Dirk spun and ended up clouting the side of Farfus (I think). Best action in the whole race if you ask me
According to Dirk something just broke. So no contact with Priaulx
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Old 1 May 2005, 17:57 (Ref:1291163)   #33
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Another demonstration of the FIA “joke” equivalency between FWD and RWD cars! If you’re in a beemer you start faster, brake better, have better traction out of corners, preserve your tyres longer and your weight penalty is …. nothing! (provided you use a standard gearbox). The sooner they realise there is no “fair” way to mix FWD and RWD the better!
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Old 2 May 2005, 01:33 (Ref:1291303)   #34
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Sour grapes alfanano?

Im sure when WTCC get to tracks like Hockenheim and Silverstone the Alfas will be back.
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Old 2 May 2005, 16:04 (Ref:1291530)   #35
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If you’re in a beemer you start faster, brake better, have better traction out of corners, preserve your tyres longer and your weight penalty is …. nothing!Conclusion: FWD sux. Alfa that has the decency to make a RWD.
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Old 2 May 2005, 17:04 (Ref:1291554)   #36
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Coronel is disqualified because the space between front spoiler and track was to small.
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Old 2 May 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1291562)   #37
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A little bit sour! but I really do detest equivalency formulas in motor racing – I suppose it all goes back to the turbo v normally aspirated situation in 1980’s F1. My point is that they can never be fair – if one type of car is winning then the other lot will say they need a rules break! BMW complained when those nasty Alfa’s beat them in the ETCC (basically because they had produced a better engine) but of course BM said it was down to the weight difference.

BMW will only lose the championship if they screw up – the laws of physics say RWD is a far better way to drive a racing car. Alfa or Seat might be able to win the second race if they start on pole and hold everyone up like at Monza.

FWD may suck on the track but it is by far the best all-round way of propelling a road car (I’m reminded of this every winter when I see Beemers wrapped around trees or slithering around in the snow!) and after all, the WTCC is based on road cars so I don’t see hoards of manufacturers throwing-out years of development to go back to RWD!
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Old 2 May 2005, 19:37 (Ref:1291618)   #38
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New BMW 320i E90 for 2006 is announced with FWD, sequential gearbox and four cylinders. I guess this car won´t be offensive for Alfa fans...
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Old 2 May 2005, 20:25 (Ref:1291634)   #39
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Very funny! I believe it is scheduled to be released on the same day that pigs fly and speed cameras are abolished! But seriously, nothing offensive about RWD (although BMW are somewhat selective when extolling its virtues) – it’s just mixing FWD and RWD (and 4WD for that matter), that’s the problem.
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Old 2 May 2005, 20:35 (Ref:1291639)   #40
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Originally Posted by alfanano
The sooner they realise there is no “fair” way to mix FWD and RWD the better!
What with the Super Tourers then? IMHO the Peugeots and Alfas outpaced the Beemers often.
So I guess it worked out even.
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Old 2 May 2005, 21:33 (Ref:1291670)   #41
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I’m not an expert on the European Super Tourers, but in the BTCC Alfa won in 94 because of their “innovative” interpretation of the aerodynamic rules – after that they were nowhere. They did break BMW’s early 90’s stranglehold on the title but BMW eventually withdrew (end of 95?) – no doubt due to the “excessive” weight penalty applied to RWD cars!

Unfortunately we’ve moved away from the original WTCC discussion so I’d better get back on topic with a thought provoking comment on the weekend’s racing ….. Didn’t the Accord look nice in its red and white colour scheme!
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Old 2 May 2005, 23:11 (Ref:1291710)   #42
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Hazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by alfanano
I’m not an expert on the European Super Tourers, but in the BTCC Alfa won in 94 because of their “innovative” interpretation of the aerodynamic rules – after that they were nowhere. They did break BMW’s early 90’s stranglehold on the title but BMW eventually withdrew (end of 95?) – no doubt due to the “excessive” weight penalty applied to RWD cars!

Unfortunately we’ve moved away from the original WTCC discussion so I’d better get back on topic with a thought provoking comment on the weekend’s racing ….. Didn’t the Accord look nice in its red and white colour scheme!
Not as good as the new Crawford Beemer.
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Old 2 May 2005, 23:16 (Ref:1291712)   #43
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BMW pulled out of the BTCC at the end of 1996 to concentrate on their sportscar programmes which ran in 1997 / 1998 / 1999 @ Lemans.

In 1996 BMW produced a very good car that won many races, but then so did Renault which was FWD.
I do agree that the drivetrain / weight rules are a pain, but unless all cars are made rear drive, there isn't much you can do...
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Old 2 May 2005, 23:20 (Ref:1291713)   #44
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Originally Posted by The Monster
BMW pulled out of the BTCC at the end of 1996 to concentrate on their sportscar programmes which ran in 1997 / 1998 / 1999 @ Lemans.

In 1996 BMW produced a very good car that won many races, but then so did Renault which was FWD.
I do agree that the drivetrain / weight rules are a pain, but unless all cars are made rear drive, there isn't much you can do...
Similar issues of course caused quite a few problems for Audi in 1997/1998 - leading to their withdrawal...when any variation of ballast to counter the performance increase the 4WD Audi would have could never be sorted out.

When it rained - Audi couldn't really lose in '96 when they were running 4WD.
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Old 3 May 2005, 05:28 (Ref:1291755)   #45
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Originally Posted by alfanano
A little bit sour! but I really do detest equivalency formulas in motor racing – I suppose it all goes back to the turbo v normally aspirated situation in 1980’s F1. My point is that they can never be fair – if one type of car is winning then the other lot will say they need a rules break! BMW complained when those nasty Alfa’s beat them in the ETCC (basically because they had produced a better engine) but of course BM said it was down to the weight difference.

BMW will only lose the championship if they screw up – the laws of physics say RWD is a far better way to drive a racing car. Alfa or Seat might be able to win the second race if they start on pole and hold everyone up like at Monza.

FWD may suck on the track but it is by far the best all-round way of propelling a road car (I’m reminded of this every winter when I see Beemers wrapped around trees or slithering around in the snow!) and after all, the WTCC is based on road cars so I don’t see hoards of manufacturers throwing-out years of development to go back to RWD!

preivous year's result show that BMWs have an advantage in Mangy Cours,so not no concern that FWD car can't achieve good result at the moment,give some confidence to them
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Old 3 May 2005, 07:03 (Ref:1291779)   #46
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Not as good as the new Crawford Beemer.
Or should we call it IEP Team or even Elgh Motorsport BMW rather than Crawford...
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:12 (Ref:1292211)   #47
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Or should we call it IEP Team or even Elgh Motorsport BMW rather than Crawford...
Crawford Racing runned by Elgh Motorsport
IEP Team runned by Elgh Motorsport



Buth the same is for the factory BMW teams (Schnitzer, RBM, etc.)
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Old 4 May 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1292679)   #48
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Originally Posted by Monkey Head
preivous year's result show that BMWs have an advantage in Mangy Cours,so not no concern that FWD car can't achieve good result at the moment,give some confidence to them
i'll give them a lot of confidence
2 rather bad races for Alfa .. i hope they will do better at Silverstone . and they probably do . all the bimeers should have a lot of balast
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Old 4 May 2005, 17:33 (Ref:1293016)   #49
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Originally Posted by alfanano
FWD may suck on the track but it is by far the best all-round way of propelling a road car (I’m reminded of this every winter when I see Beemers wrapped around trees or slithering around in the snow!) and after all, the WTCC is based on road cars so I don’t see hoards of manufacturers throwing-out years of development to go back to RWD!
Err.. I think you'll find that FWD is a poor compromise, even for a road car.. It is implimented mainly to avoid having to get the drive to the rear wheels, with all the cost savings that this implies.. Physics dictates that if you send all the drive through the steering wheels, something ahs to give.. Ever noticed that you get through four or five sets of front tyres for one set of rears on a FWD car..?

4WD may be a good balance for snow..

RWD is, at most other times, the best as it allows a good weight distribution.. The fronts and rears of my RWD car seem to wear evenly, whicg suggests that each of the four wheels is doing it's fair share of the work.. Of course, you need a suspension set-up that works etc., but, basically, I'd prefer RWD over FWD most every time..

As far as BMW v Alfa v Seat.. Well, Alfa and Seat are welcome to field a RWD car, aren't they..?

In all honesty, this has been an issue for two or three years now and I'd say it balances out over a season..

David

(anyway, the question ought to be why Alfa's weren't more impressive at Monza, a track that supposedly suits their advantages)..
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Old 5 May 2005, 11:41 (Ref:1293591)   #50
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