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Old 24 Jan 2021, 05:34 (Ref:4030878)   #2601
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As has been said, Covid related shipping issues are at least partly to blame for any freight disruption - whether because of restrictions on movement without testing etc, or apparently a de facto shortage of shipping containers - probably more accurately described as huge piles of empty containers stuck in the wrong places, again partly because of Covid issues, and partly (in this country) because of pre-Brexit stockpiling.


I'm sure many remainers will keenly pin the blame for any disruption on Brexit, of course. Inevitably the last-minute agreement of trade issues has contributed to disruption as it was impossible for the shipping industry properly to prepare, but the EU negotiators have as much a responsibility for that as UK. It was always perfectly possible for a pragmatic business-focussed attitude to have reached something similar to or better than the agreement we have, much earlier than occurred, but for presumably various domestic political reasons immense amounts of time and effort were wasted on pointless grandstanding. One of the reasons why I was opposed to the continued growth of the EU with supposedly centralised decision-making, which in reality is partially hamstrung by the need to reconcile almost 30 different agendas.......
Would there have been so much disruption if the vote went the other way?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 10:13 (Ref:4030890)   #2602
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Good question Terence.

From Lanky:
>>>>>>but the EU negotiators have as much a responsibility for that as UK

I don't quite know what we all expected. We royally **** the Europeans around and don't expect them to be a little niggly in return?

It would all have been so much easier if only Johnny Foreigner had played cricket. They'd have known how to lose graciously.



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Old 24 Jan 2021, 10:40 (Ref:4030891)   #2603
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Not sure we did, frankly. We told them we were leaving, deal or no deal.

They are recorded as putting all sorts of barriers in the way of a deal, which patently could never be accepted by a sovereign state. Yet we tried to come to terms.

That said the reports of shipping problems are a result of the pandemic. I don't think the USA, South America or Australia can blame Brexit.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 14:37 (Ref:4030907)   #2604
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It' s not only transport delays that are happening. There is also the little matter of the additional costs that are now having to be added due to extra clearance paperwork and procedures that didn't exist prior to Brexit. There are plenty of reported cases in all media outlets.

In reply to queries to government offices, callers have been advised by officials to set up hubs/subsidiaries within EU to overcome these difficulties. Apparently, this is not official policy of the government, and some would probably say that these officials would would be telling callers this because they are probably Remainers, but I am sure that they wouldn't be handing out this advice if they didn't believe that it was the best option.

The results of setting up hubs within the EU means that tax would be paid in the EU, investment would be made within the EU and EU citizens, in all probability, would be given employment. All to the detriment of the UK.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 15:23 (Ref:4030924)   #2605
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I still see no nexus between a world wide shipping situation resulting from the pandemic and Brexit.

I also know we are not allowed to highlight the immediate advantages from Brexit but here goes. Notwithstanding a 1983 Directive that has been revised and made more restrictive until now it would have stopped the UK, as it has all EU States, from importing its own vaccines, we did it and are currently way ahead of the game. You can find the directive here: www.europa.eu. This is not Schadenfreude, just fact.

Next, Nissan, one of the major manufacturers in the UK has committed to increasing its manufacturing capabilities in the North East. Both very good news stories. I'm sure Nissan pays its taxes.

Because we are no longer in the EU we can and have put more money into private business as pandemic support than the EU would permit.

Bad news is of course the lack of a market for fish which in part (I agree not entirely) is because restaurants and other industrial outlets have shut down due to covid.

Also bad news is the apparent inability of our customs people to talk to their EU counterparts and define what truckers need to cover their trips. Again though, nobody has given statistics for how much is being delayed compared to the "halcyon" days of free movement. And at this point is it worth noting that due to Covid, border crossings both ways are restricted anyway?

Now, can people point out who in the government is giving out the advice alleged in the above post, or is it another "an unnamed spokesmen for..." situation?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 15:31 (Ref:4030929)   #2606
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It' s not only transport delays that are happening. There is also the little matter of the additional costs that are now having to be added due to extra clearance paperwork and procedures that didn't exist prior to Brexit. There are plenty of reported cases in all media outlets.

In reply to queries to government offices, callers have been advised by officials to set up hubs/subsidiaries within EU to overcome these difficulties. Apparently, this is not official policy of the government, and some would probably say that these officials would would be telling callers this because they are probably Remainers, but I am sure that they wouldn't be handing out this advice if they didn't believe that it was the best option.

The results of setting up hubs within the EU means that tax would be paid in the EU, investment would be made within the EU and EU citizens, in all probability, would be given employment. All to the detriment of the UK.
Or, ultimately, whoever now owns the UK and its companies.

So China, USA, Middle East, Germany, France in the main I would guess?

Probably slightly different to how things were a decade ago when many of the discovered articles seem to have been created.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 15:32 (Ref:4030930)   #2607
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Mike if I remember well, one of your sons is working in the insurance field, subsidiary of an US company may be? How do they manage?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 16:08 (Ref:4030940)   #2608
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Now, can people point out who in the government is giving out the advice alleged in the above post, or is it another "an unnamed spokesmen for..." situation?

Peter, you have misread what I wrote. A government spokesperson has stated that it is not government policy, and, as I wrote, it is officials, not members of the government, that have been passing out the advice.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 16:14 (Ref:4030941)   #2609
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Apologies, yes I misunderstood, so if it isn't government policy why is anyone publishing it? Fake news?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 16:26 (Ref:4030945)   #2610
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Mike if I remember well, one of your sons is working in the insurance field, subsidiary of an US company may be? How do they manage?

No, I am afraid not so Gerard. One of them is a partner in one in the taxation division of one of the big four accountancy firms, whilst the other used to be a senior manager in one of the very large legal firms, which he left a couple of years ago, and is now an analyst for one of the large outsourcing firms.

Covid has been a real headache for my taxation son because 2 years ago he was headhunted by and joined a rival firm after they made him an offer that he couldn't refuse. Due to the contract conditions with his previous firm, he had to take six months gardening leave,and that was followed by his not being permitted to speak to any of his old clients. That was not so bad, but his expertise is in the tax implications for Japanese companies trading in the UK, and to do effectively, he needs to travel to Japan to speak to those in influence over there. However, travel to Japan has been curtailed since last year, and so he has been almost twiddling his thumbs. More so because one of the functions for which he was brought on board was that he would be seconded to Tokyo, and he would be required to re-organise their division over there to model the was that he had set up the offices for his previous firm when he was seconded there. It helps that he is a fluent Japanese speaker.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 16:27 (Ref:4030946)   #2611
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Apologies, yes I misunderstood, so if it isn't government policy why is anyone publishing it? Fake news?

No, it's come from multiple sources, which are named.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 17:13 (Ref:4030949)   #2612
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Got some sources?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 17:21 (Ref:4030950)   #2613
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And just for clarity this is the FT on the shipping crisis. https://www.ft.com/content/eb21056b-...8-92e59cddc1b5
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 18:30 (Ref:4030955)   #2614
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It helps that he is a fluent Japanese speaker.
I see. It has been a real headache for me to understand not only what they say but more likely what they mean… Being straight and square, the fact that some simple words like "yes" doesn't really mean "yes" but "yes I heard but won't give you my opinion now" was not always easy. In he other hand, it's been quite challenge for them to deal with me…
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 18:55 (Ref:4030960)   #2615
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Got some sources?
Think it was in the Guardian Peter.
Leaving the world of make-believe (or make-it-up-as-you-go-along) and coming back to reality here is a post from another forum I'm a member of:-

"3 weeks in & 30 trailers so far we have shipped successfully into the EU. Few teething issues which has caused delays. But my team & my customers have worked hard to sort problems and paperwork issues. I appreciate and thank my drivers for all the patience they have shown (not much the drivers can do other than wait for us to sort it) we will continue to push on into Europe as hard as we can. This week we have been contacted by British businesses who would usually have European Hauliers collecting their goods. Many foreign trucks are refusing to come to the UK. We have done 5 extra exports this week which we usually would not have covered with another 5 already booked for next week. If any British Businesses are struggling to get their goods into Europe and need help, please get in touch. We can get it there. It’s about time British European Hauliers took back some of the export work, up until now general haulage for export has been a race to the bottom with freight forwarders cutting each other’s rate time after time and it’s always the haulier that actually covers the load is the one that loses out. Freight forwarders who don’t operate their own trucks are ruining this industry. The ones who operate their own vehicles and have extra work to sub out (like I do at X-mas always pay a decent or fair rate) and understand the actual cost of operating a fleet of vehicles and what goes with It. We learn a bit more after every load we ship. Still plenty to learn but we are definitely making steady progress. ��
My contact details are below.... Cheers. Pete
��- pete@whitestransportservices.com"

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Old 24 Jan 2021, 18:59 (Ref:4030961)   #2616
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And just for clarity this is the FT on the shipping crisis. https://www.ft.com/content/eb21056b-...8-92e59cddc1b5

Only readable if you subscribe, of course - although the headline looks remarkably similar to one in the Times the other day


I'm absolutely certain that a significant amount of the problems with freight are pandemic-based - if only because of the reduction in trained bodies to deal with the (largely irrelevant and bureaucratic) custome paperwork
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 19:37 (Ref:4030966)   #2617
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Strange, I'm not a subscriber.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 19:40 (Ref:4030968)   #2618
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Think it was in the Guardian Peter.
Leaving the world of make-believe (or make-it-up-as-you-go-along) and coming back to reality here is a post from another forum I'm a member of:-

"3 weeks in & 30 trailers so far we have shipped successfully into the EU. Few teething issues which has caused delays. But my team & my customers have worked hard to sort problems and paperwork issues. I appreciate and thank my drivers for all the patience they have shown (not much the drivers can do other than wait for us to sort it) we will continue to push on into Europe as hard as we can. This week we have been contacted by British businesses who would usually have European Hauliers collecting their goods. Many foreign trucks are refusing to come to the UK. We have done 5 extra exports this week which we usually would not have covered with another 5 already booked for next week. If any British Businesses are struggling to get their goods into Europe and need help, please get in touch. We can get it there. It’s about time British European Hauliers took back some of the export work, up until now general haulage for export has been a race to the bottom with freight forwarders cutting each other’s rate time after time and it’s always the haulier that actually covers the load is the one that loses out. Freight forwarders who don’t operate their own trucks are ruining this industry. The ones who operate their own vehicles and have extra work to sub out (like I do at X-mas always pay a decent or fair rate) and understand the actual cost of operating a fleet of vehicles and what goes with It. We learn a bit more after every load we ship. Still plenty to learn but we are definitely making steady progress. ��
My contact details are below.... Cheers. Pete
��- pete@whitestransportservices.com"
My reference to sources was related to named entities, not just a paper saying 'someone said'.
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 19:53 (Ref:4030969)   #2619
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I see. It has been a real headache for me to understand not only what they say but more likely what they mean… Being straight and square, the fact that some simple words like "yes" doesn't really mean "yes" but "yes I heard but won't give you my opinion now" was not always easy. In he other hand, it's been quite challenge for them to deal with me…

Speaking as a generalisation, the Japanese don't particularly like foreigners, from any country, and sometimes they don't care if the foreigner knows it. As I wrote earlier, my son speaks the language fluently, having studied it for his degree and having lived in Japan on and off for about 10 years. A typical example would be when my son and I arrived at a fairly top restaurant a few years ago, and before he had even announced his name which he had used to reserve a table, the "meeter and greeter" made some quite derogatory remarks to one of the other staff.

When my son then announced himself in Japanese, neither of them were in the least embarrassed, and when my daughter in law joined us a few moments later, the comments flowed again - she just so happens to be Japanese, and they didn't approve. Apparently, this is not uncommon, so both of them told me.

My son's in laws do not approve of the fact that their daughter has married a foreigner, and even though they are well educated people - he's a retired school headteacher - they treat my son with contempt, even though she has married quite well (if I may say), certainly financially. And it's not as if this was a passing flight of fancy - they have been together for almost 27 years, married about 20 years.

I had businesses during the late 70s until the mid 80s in Singapore, Thailand, Hong Kong and just over the border in Mainland China, and I never encountered any resistance or obvious resentment. One just needed to learn to be patient, and learn how to negotiate, because, certainly in the case of the Chinese, they will never commence negotiations with the price that they are either prepared to buy at or sell at. A prime example was one occasion when two colleagues from two of my biggest competitors joined me on a trip to the Far East on a joint project. We also needed to conduct our own business whilst we were out there, but it turns out that they were not patient enough to sign any contracts. On that occasion, and some others after, I managed to supply them at prices they hadn't achieved.

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Old 24 Jan 2021, 19:57 (Ref:4030970)   #2620
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Brexiteers eh?
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Old 24 Jan 2021, 23:06 (Ref:4031002)   #2621
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Speaking as a generalisation, the Japanese don't particularly like foreigners, from any country, and sometimes they don't care if the foreigner knows it.
Mike, I have to say that hasn't been my experience with the Japanese. I've been dealing with a group of them for over 30 years, and I've never found them to be anything less than polite & friendly. Admittedly, my grasp of the language is only limited, but you can usually tell when someone is being derogatory, especially when it's people you've got to know quite well over the years.

Now, maybe it's because, in my case, we know each other through a common interest (classic cars & motorsport), so perhaps a bond exists as a result of that, which wouldn't occur in a normal social or business environment - I really don't know.

But I have to say that when I went to Japan, I didn't sense any hostility from anyone there then either, even people outside the 'car people' group.

I do agree that when dealing with them on a business level, it's somewhat different to dealing with a European, or a Yank, and you do have to take a different approach.

I wonder if your son is dealing largely with people from Tokyo? I can imagine attitudes being different in Tokyo. The Japanese people I know are not from Tokyo, so perhaps that's the difference? If it's not that, then I can't explain it. Maybe I've just been very lucky?
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Old 25 Jan 2021, 00:04 (Ref:4031014)   #2622
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Mike, I have to say that hasn't been my experience with the Japanese. I've been dealing with a group of them for over 30 years, and I've never found them to be anything less than polite & friendly. Admittedly, my grasp of the language is only limited, but you can usually tell when someone is being derogatory, especially when it's people you've got to know quite well over the years.

Now, maybe it's because, in my case, we know each other through a common interest (classic cars & motorsport), so perhaps a bond exists as a result of that, which wouldn't occur in a normal social or business environment - I really don't know.

But I have to say that when I went to Japan, I didn't sense any hostility from anyone there then either, even people outside the 'car people' group.

I do agree that when dealing with them on a business level, it's somewhat different to dealing with a European, or a Yank, and you do have to take a different approach.

I wonder if your son is dealing largely with people from Tokyo? I can imagine attitudes being different in Tokyo. The Japanese people I know are not from Tokyo, so perhaps that's the difference? If it's not that, then I can't explain it. Maybe I've just been very lucky?
A friend of mine worked in Japan full time for about 3 years in the mid 2000s and described the Japanese as the most “superior” and generally racist people he had ever come across. No idea where he worked but he would recognise Mike’s view.
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Old 25 Jan 2021, 09:25 (Ref:4031070)   #2623
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Paul D, I can only report what my son and daughter in law told me. My own dealings with the Japanese were pleasant, although eventually they were unwilling to accede to my requests about a possible venture that would have had a huge impact on the packaging industry. It never happened at all, which was a great disappointment to me, both from a technical point of view as well as from a financial stand point.

My son has also worked in other places apart from Tokyo; he acted as an interpreter at the Nagano Winter Olympics in 1998, whilst he was posted out there as an exchange language teacher, which is on the other side of the main island. He also worked for a Japanese travel company, which is where her met his wife, in Osaka which is to the south of the main island. And his in laws come from south of Fukuoka which is situated in the southern island.
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Old 25 Jan 2021, 11:31 (Ref:4031090)   #2624
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A friend of mine worked in Japan full time for about 3 years in the mid 2000s and described the Japanese as the most “superior” and generally racist people he had ever come across.
He had to discover Chinese I presume…

We have now the first side effects of Brexit. Nothing to do with what has been decided or is done in the UK, seems its all about our gov', custom department and certainly transport companies.
All we purchase from you is supposed to be invoiced out of any tax, its the responsibility of the transport company and/or representing to collect VAT, tariff and what they think must be applied. Prior to delivery or post delivery…*Seems anything below 150 € or £, goes under the beam.
Of course this will affect only "poor" people like me but if you add several small invoices, the total becomes significant.

For a while, I feel it'll be easier to buy from Germany, Ireland, the US and even Australia. Hope this is only the "running in" period…
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Old 25 Jan 2021, 12:17 (Ref:4031096)   #2625
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He had to discover Chinese I presume…

We have now the first side effects of Brexit. Nothing to do with what has been decided or is done in the UK, seems its all about our gov', custom department and certainly transport companies.
All we purchase from you is supposed to be invoiced out of any tax, its the responsibility of the transport company and/or representing to collect VAT, tariff and what they think must be applied. Prior to delivery or post delivery…*Seems anything below 150 € or £, goes under the beam.
Of course this will affect only "poor" people like me but if you add several small invoices, the total becomes significant.

For a while, I feel it'll be easier to buy from Germany, Ireland, the US and even Australia. Hope this is only the "running in" period…
Of my last two purchases from Germany, one never arrived & the second took so long I was beginning to think that was lost too. Both involved DHL...

By contrast, I sent some incorrect Alfa parts back to Poland last week. They were collected here at mid-day on Tuesday. First thing Friday I received an email to say they had arrived & the correct (hopefully) ones were on the way back to me. Take a bw GLS.

I've also been awaiting an eBay purchase from China (I know, I know...) since November. The shipping company already cancelled the shipment & returned it to the sender once. Now it is on its way to me again, allegedly. All to do with the Great Shipping Brou ha-ha I guess, & nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit!
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