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6 Mar 2009, 16:04 (Ref:2410461) | #1 | ||
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March 793
One of the largest build runs for a March F3 car [25 built] and a lot still running or in collections, but so far very little input on chassis history or who had which car in period.
So, I'm starting this thread in the hope that current owners who know something of the history of their car will join in, and maybe attract a few period observations to boot. Known chassis numbers 1: Works for Thackwell [period observation] 2: Unipart: Nigel Mansell 4: Claimed to be Alboreto's Euroracing chassis 12: Tiga for de Cesaris 13: Kenneth Acheson 15: Unipart: Brett Riley [probably new around Monaco, as is Acheson's car] Unipart run a 783 alongside 793-2 early season 17: Tiga for de Cesaris [new at Donington May] used only twice in season 19: Roger Heavens Racing new at Monaco, used by Bleekemolen and Borgudd in 1980 but maybe Boutsen's car in 1979 20: Project 4 for Serra [period observation], probably new May. Sold to Japan and used by Sasaki to win 1980 Japanese F3 championship, still being used in Japan 1983 by Kozo Okumura [period observation] 25: Unknown until 1983 until observed on Urs Hauenstein's car at Ecce Homo hillclimb This leaves a lot of gaps. Given that de Cesaris has a 793 from early March and his first car is chassis 12, and Acheson doesn't get 13 until Monaco, the first batch seems to be 12 strong and we know four of them. Debuting before Monaco in unknown cars we have: Riccardo Paletti Michael Korten Pietro Villa Freddy Schnarwiler Mauro Baldi Jurg Leinhard Chico Serra Piercarlo Ghinzani It may be, of course, that March delivered later numbers out of sequence, and there were probably works "U" cars - although 1977 seems to be the last year that March do that with F2s and there are no "U" plates in the 1978 records for any of their cars. Later in the season we have cars for: Jean-Louis Schlesser Stefan Johansson Eddie Jordan, also used by Bernard Devaney [sold to Rick Whyman in 1980] a second car for Roger Heavens Michele Kropf another Euroracing car Jurg Leinhard after 1979 one of the de Cesaris cars is used by Fred Krab, another goes to Tarry Racing for Ian Shaw Any advance on this?? |
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9 Mar 2009, 14:00 (Ref:2412195) | #2 | ||
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Japanese cars:
I have, mostly from JAF result sheets which may or may not be total tosh, the following info: 793-20 for Sasaki in 1980, as you said, but: 793-21 for Okumura in 1983!!! Also: 793-25 for Akira Hagiwara in 1980/81, and Kazuhide Kase in 1982 - can hardly be the Hauenstein car, because Urs ran a 793 in 1982 already, unless he had two! I'm not arguing, just stating what I have. Btw, 793s were VERY popular in Japan (they were almost certainly present in double figures by 1980!), and the first one ran there on May 1 in 1979 already (Jun Takahashi)! 793-20 was, I believe, on the market just a few years ago, seller Japanese? European cars: I have, early season: Project Four - Serra TIGA - de Cesaris March - Thackwell Korten - himself Euroracing - Ghinzani Euroracing - Alboreto Spiess - Henzler Lienhard - himself Schnarwiler - himself those already ran in March, then in late April/early May: March - Herregods Derby Corse - Avanzini ("793 nuova" may have been a modified 783???) Baldi - himself Takahashi - himself then a number of "new" cars at Donington Euro, May 20 (a week before Monaco): Pedersoli - himself (I'm sure that was a modified 783) Baldi - himself (very probably the same as before) McMahon - Johansson McMahon - Jordan Heavens - Bleekemolen Heavens - Boutsen Acheson - himself TIGA - de Cesaris (spare car) Project Four - Serra (spare car, actually "79C"!???) At Monaco these cars appear in my records for the first time, although they may not be new: Euroracing - Necchi Schlesser - himself Longobardi - Cazzaniga Paletti - himself Fast forward and before the end of the season the following drivers appear in 793s: Konrad (Jun 24, second Korten entry) Pescia (Jun 24, 783???) Romano (Jun 24, 783???) Villa (Jun 24) Devaney (Sep 9 ex-Johansson, Nov 3 ex-Roe) Rob Wilson (Sep 30, "new") Borgudd (Oct 28) Fleck (Nov 3) Leslie (Nov 3, Heavens entry) Ian Taylor (Nov 3, TIGA entry) A few more mentions of former owners: Rick Whyman 1980 (ex-Jordan) Gero Fleck/Uwe Teuscher 1980/81/82 (ex-Korten) Gero Fleck/Donald Bradway 1980/81 (ex-de Cesaris) Ian Shaw 1982 (ex-de Cesaris) Sakae Obata 1982 (ex-LaTour '80/81) Likely: Günter Gebhardt 1980 (ex-Henzler) |
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9 Mar 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2412203) | #3 | ||
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I'm unsure about the Unipart cars, I thought they were modified 783s??? Btw, I have Riley TWICE with a new tub, May 20 and June 10!
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9 Mar 2009, 14:30 (Ref:2412218) | #4 | ||
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The Unipart '79 Marches are a mystery Michael, they looked like 'podded' 783s, but apparently the team did have new 79 cars. See various posts on the 783 thread. Did Roe have a 793??
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9 Mar 2009, 17:33 (Ref:2412334) | #5 | ||
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That was also a mystery to me, I only had the info "ex-Roe" for Devaney at the Thruxton TV race, perhaps just a mind lapse by the author?
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10 Mar 2009, 18:21 (Ref:2413125) | #6 | |||
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Quote:
I'd be inclined to believe the JAF data - if it's from period magazines. While researching chassis numbers for Japanese F2 I happened to come across a few numbers for F3 in that season. The F2 data I've seen, which is now for several races over several years, seems pretty accurate in that it never contradicts observations of European cars by reliable sources and the comments on who previously ran cars of European series origin are usually accurate. Some comments on the above notes: Baldi has a 793 at the very start of the season but is then back into his year old RT1 at Monaco; at Donington the 793 is described by Autosport as a 793 acquired to replace his recently crashed Ralt - first lap at Monaco I think. Wilson's 793 is actually the ex Herregods 783-5; it gets a 793 tub late season I think that the Avanzani car is indeed a modified 783 and may have been the 793 used by Baldi at the very start of the year Roe didn't drive a 793; the comment about the Devaney car being ex Roe is Autosport report of the STP Trophy at Thruxton 4/11/79 and I think they mean ex Jordan! Given that both de Cesaris cars survive, and the Jordan car, we should hope to get some current owners putting numbers to these cars and maybe clearing up some histories Of the Unipart cars I think that they really had 793s [we do, after all have two cars with claimed Unipart history out there with 793 plates] I think they started the season with one 793 [chassis 2] and a modified 783 The second 793 is with Unipart by Brands 10/6/79 when Riley's car is called a newly built 793 [this would imply it's chassis 15] At the same race Mansell's car is called 'the car used to good effect by Riley and Needell last season', so it's a 783 [they had two] and when Flux appears for the team at Thruxton 30/9/79 it's in what Autosport calls the team's usual spare and it's labelled a 783/93. This is after de Cesaris has landed on Mansell wrecking one of the 793s. So, I think Unipart have two real 793s [they had chassis 11 and 12 in 1978] and rotate the older cars as spares. Paletti has his 793 at Vallelunga 18 March, along with Alboreto Korten Leinhard Baldi [suspect 783] Henzler Pedersoli [entered by the Brambilla bros...] Pietro Villa [DNQ] Schnarwiler Chris |
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15 Mar 2009, 17:45 (Ref:2416060) | #7 | |||
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Quote:
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15 Mar 2009, 17:50 (Ref:2416064) | #8 | ||
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About Roe, meanwhile I have found this:
http://www.formula2.net/F379_GB20.htm And this: http://www.formula2.net/F379_GB23.htm Not sure how reliable that is, though. |
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17 Mar 2009, 07:47 (Ref:2417167) | #9 | ||
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Unipart
At the end of season race at Thruxton Mansell had 783-11 and Riley was also in a 783.
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17 Mar 2009, 19:13 (Ref:2417652) | #10 | ||
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19 Mar 2009, 07:48 (Ref:2418972) | #11 | ||
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793-14
The only 793 number observed in 1979 was 793-14 at the Easter Thruxton, Chico Serra/Project Four.
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16 Jan 2010, 19:13 (Ref:2614359) | #12 | ||
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My 793 is chassis no 19. I bought the car from a guy in Reading way back in 1987. We thought Bleekemolen raced his Ralt at Monaco? He later switched to the March half way through the year and finished 2nd to Prost in the Euro championship.Be interesting to find out if she was raced at Monaco as i am pondering over the entry form at the moment. Also if anyone has a period photo this would be fantastic as we have drawn a blank.Thanks Iain Rowley. "delta"
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18 Jan 2010, 03:25 (Ref:2614918) | #13 | ||
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I have a few not very good shots (it was very wet, and, er, I was not very good at it ...) from the May 1979 meeting at Donington Info here; http://www.formula2.net/F379_E22.htm However the Roger Heavens entries were all Ralts. It seems that Boutsen changed his RH entry to a 793 the next week at Monte Carlo. Neither Boutseon nor Bleekmolen escaped the heast at Donington, both finishing 14th. http://www.formula2.net/F379_E26.htm where some bloke called Prost won. They must have been good days. 66 entries for Monaco and 55 turned up to qualify for 20 grid places. 47 entries for Donington and 41 turned up. Boutsen in the RHR March did not qualify. Bleekmolen was in a RHR Ralt and finished 9th about 1.5 seconds off 6th. So, I assume that chassis 19 was not to be seen at that Donington meeting - at least not on track. I don't think I have anything from 1980 but I doubt it was out at Donington anyway and it looks like there was no F3 event at Donington in '81. Maybe one of the larger archives would have something? |
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18 Jan 2010, 10:06 (Ref:2615016) | #14 | ||
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Grant this is mega thankyou. We need to meet up even more now so i can buy you that beer."or two"
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18 Jan 2010, 12:08 (Ref:2615073) | #15 | ||
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I spent a little time experimenting with attempts to find something in the archives. Most of the bigger ones I know about seems to have greatly reduced access compared to the last time I had a look around. So that means loads of F1 stuff visible but not much else. I can't believe there is nothing from, say, Boutsen's Monaco practice. Finding it may be more challenging. Pick an archive and ask the admin people to run a search I guess. The pro stuff is likely to be adequately tagged and indexed. Failing that a few of the pro/semi-pro people covering historics have been around for a while and may have something from the period. Or perhaps teams/drivers in their personal collections? |
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31 Jan 2010, 13:37 (Ref:2622783) | #16 | ||
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Jeff Bloxham has come up with a photo from Silverstone in 1979. Its a black and white pic but gives me an idea on the paintwork. He is going to have a look in the Autosport files next time he goes into their office. In the mean time im still trying to source the £4000.00 Monaco entry fee. . Someone said try Drifty
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31 Jan 2010, 17:51 (Ref:2622989) | #17 | |
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Iain,
There are some B&W scans from Autosport - interesting but not great - in the www.Marchives.com site. Year 1979 required - maybe 1980 useful as well? but have not checked there in detail. The images are in date order of publishing I think. You can see the dates in the names of the files in the thumbnail section. Bleekemolen - F&S Properties March 6-21-79 David Leslie in a Roger Heavens March 11-8-79 Bleekemolen again in the background 11-22-79 (Dates are US format here - MM-DD-YY) |
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31 Jan 2010, 19:18 (Ref:2623072) | #18 | ||
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Thankyou Grant i did have a look at their site. Better look again.
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23 Feb 2010, 18:59 (Ref:2639253) | #19 | ||
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Great news today. I wrote to Roger Heavens some while back and he has only just received my letter. He rang me today and we had a great chat. Anyway he is going to sort out some pictures and info on my car,then we will meet up for a beer or two.
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23 Feb 2010, 21:43 (Ref:2639341) | #20 | ||
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That's great news. Roger Heavens is the key to quite a few sports car questions too. Is he going to Stoneleigh?
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24 Feb 2010, 10:54 (Ref:2639610) | #21 | ||
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7 Mar 2010, 00:15 (Ref:2646407) | #22 | ||
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Roger has sent me some photos of my car in period. Fantastic. He said he is going to Stoneleigh and i am hoping to meet him there.
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7 Mar 2010, 10:28 (Ref:2646537) | #23 | ||
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Ian
Was the guy in Reading, who you bought your car off in '85, called Roger Hamblin? Chris |
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7 Mar 2010, 18:03 (Ref:2646777) | #24 | ||
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Yes.I have written to him a few times but he had never replied.
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7 Mar 2010, 19:24 (Ref:2646859) | #25 | ||
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OK, Hamblin's car in 1984 is described as ex Borgudd by Autosport, so it would be the Heavens car he drove 1980 Monaco.
Chris |
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